DRIK VS SRI SURYA SIDDHANTA .

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Hi astro123

When I used SSS, I did not take note whether it was Geocentric or Topocentric. But the author recommended that Ayanamsa should be SSS (instead of say Lahiri). That is the only chage I made.

But the above is irrelevant to me since I am going for DSS with Geocentric settings.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

[astro123]

Hi astro123

When I used SSS, I did not take note whether it was Geocentric or Topocentric. But the author recommended that Ayanamsa should be SSS (instead of say Lahiri). That is the only chage I made.

But the above is irrelevant to me since I am going for DSS with Geocentric settings.

Warmest Regards
Hock Leong

Thanks KHL....Drik also closely tally's with my past life events

[rishirahul]

Good day all ,

As we all know J Hora has now come out with a New feature in the 7.5 version a horoscope can be made using Shri Surya Sidhanta . The internet has been abuzz with claims and counter claims, There are people who are in support , and others who are out to denounce P.V.N.R. ji . I want to initiate a healthy debate on this forum with a open mind .

First of all let us under stand what the hell these two Sidhanta's are all about . Sidhanta is a Sanskrit term, which roughly translates as the Doctrine or the Tradition, or rather a school of thought .

Now Surya Siddhanta is believed to have been authored by Sri Varahamihira. This is what P.V.N.R. ji has to say about SSS . I am doing a Mere cut and past job so that we dont have to go hunting for information on the Net .


To be continued,

Hi,

We all following drik sidhhanta all these years... and then SSS appears out of the blue.......!!

Isn't it a fact that general human nature resists changes.. specially sharp changes.. as we all do not like to unnecessarily uncomfortable/disturbed?!

There are some debating the theory/logic behind it; which they have every right to, as everyone has their rights. But Real roots and or logic is sometimes not traceable easily... leaving them groping in the dark in wrong tunnels.

Let us now talk of the people who was always convinced by 'Drik'... their minds became puzzled when sss arose out the blue.

Test its veracity with your attained astrological knowledge... on others chart VERY WELL known to you.. or your personal chart. Isnt this the best option.
PLuto was seen in a different light all these years... until its 'perception' was changed by our scientists.....(of course this is not the best example).

See for your self. and form opinions

I am generally an ayanamsa friendly student of Jyotish and other astrology, who had been following mainly N.C. Lahiri ayanamsa.. along with B.V.Raman, K.P., RohiniRanjan ans Fagan ayanamsa for a single in depth prediction/perception.

The best part is many ayanamsas work.. but to some extent. Ayanamsas work like progressions. Example vimshottari dasha from the moon is a progression; camlulated from lagna is another.

Presently I am experimenting with SSS ayanamsa to check its extent of genuineness.. and would not like to comment on it yet as it may lead to bias/conflicts.. after all my fact finding is yet unfinished.

RishiRahul

[kandhan]

rishirahulji

welcome to LOVA. your posts in mysticboard were informative.

[rishirahul]

rishirahulji

welcome to LOVA. your posts in mysticboard were informative.

Hi kandhan ji,

Are you the wonderful 'kandhant' of Mysticboard?
Even if not, A Heartful thanks for welcoming me here!

I was also wondering about an ayanamsa which is suitable with all the dasa tools! Of course I am not talking of dasas here we dont know much about.

RishiRahul

[kandhan]

yes
that is yours truly.

[astroboy]

I want to quote from Jathaka Sara Dheepa which was compiled by Shri Nrusimha Deivajna in the 17th century . He had dedicated a entire chapter advocating drik Ganitha . He says in chapter 17 sloka 1, and I quote,

" At the time of birth, a horoscope must be cast according to Drik Ganitha and the planets must be placed according to it . It is only then that the results will be perfect"

In sloka 4 he says
" In drik the correct position of the planets are available through observation . Based on this principle the planets be placed on the chart and results are judged "

In sloka 5 he quotes another classical text before his time or during his time named "jyotish Vivaran" that the planetary positions must be taken from drik Ganitha only to fix time at the time of marriage . If in any principle Drig position of planets are not available some how arrive at Drig only from other sources without having blind faith in other principles .

In sloka 6 he quotes "Vasishta Siddhanta " ( He does not say who he is ) and says that he has also advocated that the positions of planets, Thithi, etc must be decided based on Drik Ganitha only".

In sloka 7 he quotes a statement of "Sowra Bhashya" at frequent intervals the should do the rectification in calculating the apparent position of planets by devices to the correct time, observe and confirm their acccuracy in Drig Ganitha . For this they must frame rules scientifically for other benefit and that the Ganitha must be updated from time to time .

In Sloka 8 he says the " Brahma Siddhantha " also confirms this point . It advocates that the true position of planets must be judged with the help of algebraical calculations through the observations of planets by means of visionary observation ( with subtle insight )

In sloka 9 he quotes the Jyothir Vivaran again and states " What ever cannons of fixing the time available in "Pithamha Siddhanta" , That is to be examined by algebrical calculations and arrive at the accurate Drik

.

In sloka 11 he quotes the "Vasishta Siddhantha" and states that it is told that the difference would come in the positions of apparent Sun and the Moon in the future Yugas from time to time . So a rectification in considering the variations have to be made by various ways and means .

In Sloka 12 he quotes "Damodara Paddhati" and states that drig Ganitha has to be used to fix the position of the planets

.

Dr U.S.Pulippani states that by giving so many authoritive references in support of Drig Nursimha Deivajna has emphasised the importance of Drig and algebric usage to fix the positions of planets . Baskarabatta in his "Sidhantha Shiromani " has mentioned Drig Ganitha and ayanamsha . It is clear that Astrologers knew Drig Ganitha from several centuries and that it is not a new invention of modern astronomers .

[mannu21]

I tried using Jhora yesterday only and found a lot of changes in divisional charts. Then I searched for comments of forum memebers on DRIK and SS and thanks to Deepak ji (Astroboy) for starting this discussion.

As of now I am not competent to comment on Drik or SS; But after reading this thread, I am thinking that with soo much complexities its actually almost impossible to come to any conclusion and there will always be different school of thoughts.

After Sir K N Rao ji started using Jamini convincingly, everyone started advocating Jamini. Does it mean Prashari is not reliable, the answer is simple, NO. Its just that one has to have good and thorough knowledge of the subject whether its Prashari, Jamini, KP, Nadi etc.

*************************
Now I feel Prashana Kundali is the best answer to all the questions as it doesnt require any BTR and there are no divisional charts as well. Generally, people dont seek astrological guidance when things are going their way. People generally come to astrologers with some specific query and Prashana Kundali is best tool to answer a specific query and once one master it, it can answer any query.

*******************************
I am not against this discussion; In fact, I feel such discussions actually add to knowledge and research and are mandatory for benefit of astrology and mankind.

[Vic DiCara]

Astro 123 requested me to comment.

As I understand it - this is a question of how we calculate where the planets are? Drik is by "drik" sight/observation. Whereas Surya Siddhanta is by math?

The differences seem to mainly only affect the ascendant's amshas, therefore are not very significant.

Therefore my only comment on this thread is that gradeschoolers are debating calculus. I dont mean that as an insult. I myself am a fellow gradeschooler, so I will withdraw from commenting further. For me it is more important to deeply and thoroughly master the fundamental principles of what the planets are, what the houses are, what the signs are, what the nakshatras are - what the planets in houses and signs mean and why, etc. To me that is WAY more important that a change in some divisional charts.

[kandhan]

Hi Mr.Vic

Welcome to LOVA.

does not the use of different system change placement of planets in different Rashis/Bhavas even in Rashi Chart, especially when Grahas are in Rashi Sandhis? also does it not affect amshabala of grahas?

of course learning the basics is going to make prediction easy. but is not prediction based on these calculations?

[Vic DiCara]

Dear Kandhan,

Thank you for your welcome!

In my experience, I never got better at astrology by trying to learn a new technique or adapt a new methodology, or look for something new or different. In my experience all of my improvements in understanding and utilizing astrology always came and come when I dive DEEPER into the basic, fundamental things. Therefore I don't have much spontaneous interest in discussing this topic which seems very fine and sophisticated.

I would like to hear someone clarify exactly what the practical difference is using Surya Siddhanta's formulas vs using standard Drig formulas. If they would do so, perhaps I could form a more confident and educated opinion about their relative merits. Currently it seems to me, from what I was able to understand from this verbose thread, that the difference of affect is so slight that it only affects the lagna in various amshas. Perhaps I have misunderstood?

Would someone be so kind as to calculate my data in the Drig system and the Surya Siddhanta system and point out the differences? My data is:

Victor Damien DiCara
July 27, 1970 at 19:38
Bay Shore, New York, USA

[kandhan]

Hi Mr.Vic

am just giving one example in your chart. when these two systems are applied to your chart, three planets change positions in D-9. given the importance of D-9 will this not make the predictions completley different when using these two systems?

[thirthachengappa]

by Vic DiCara » Thu Jul 07, 2011 6:09 am
In my experience, I never got better at astrology by trying to learn a new technique or adapt a new methodology, or look for something new or different. In my experience all of my improvements in understanding and utilizing astrology always came and come when I dive DEEPER into the basic, fundamental things. Therefore I don't have much spontaneous interest in discussing this topic which seems very fine and sophisticated.
I would like to hear someone clarify exactly what the practical difference is using Surya Siddhanta's formulas vs using standard Drig formulas. If they would do so, perhaps I could form a more confident and educated opinion about their relative merits. Currently it seems to me, from what I was able to understand from this verbose thread, that the difference of affect is so slight that it only affects the lagna in various amshas. Perhaps I have misunderstood?
Would someone be so kind as to calculate my data in the Drig system and the Surya Siddhanta system and point out the differences? My data is:
Victor Damien DiCara
July 27, 1970 at 19:38
Bay Shore, New York, USA

Hi Vic ji,
Welcome to the world of L.O.V.A. Hope you doing fine. Glad to have you here. I cast your chart using Drik / Lahiri Ayanamsha. Lagna is in Makara @ 1Deg 40. I am uncomfortable with D1 lagnas being at the Border. Just wondering if the you have rectified your birth time.

Using S.S.S. the lagna moves back dangeriously @ 0.29.
My point is that the Ayanamsha is everything. That is what Vedic astrology is all about. P.V. ji is hell bent on perfecting S.S.S. and is asking the community to debate if we should go back to S.S.S.

We are not adopting new technique or adapt a new methodology, or look for something new or different. All we are doing is trying to conclude if we should go back to S.S.S. Both Siddhantas have proved themselves over the years. S.S.S. seems to have done the job at one time. But the superior Drik replaced it in time.

My biggest problem with S.S.S. is that it changes the D9 and throws the Dasha Scheme all over the place. This is why this debate is important. We need to come up with a final judgment on which system to settle down with. The astrological community has always been divided on stuff like this. This has not only given the science a bad name.... we have give ammo for critics of astrology to ridicule us. The B.V.Raman VS Lahiri debacle is enough to take us back 200 years.

Using S.S.S. the dasha of Guru started in august 2005. If we use Drik, the Dasha of Guru started in April 2004 at the age of 33 and 7 Months. We are talking about a difference of roughly a year and 4 months. It’s huge by any standards. As per Drik Your Janma Nakshatra is Rohini, But using S.S.S. your Nakshatra moves back to Rohini . Forget that, Ravi moves back a whole degree . Now you can understand why we need this debate, and some why this debate needs to be resolved.

[thirthachengappa]

I for one am staunchly behind drik, and with good reason. Let me explain.

I was reading “Indian Mathematics and astronomy” by Dr.S. Balachandra Rao. This contains an appendix “Indian approach to science” by Dr M.D. Srinivas.

Dr Srinivas quotes Nilakantha Somastvan's declaration in his important work “jyotirmimamsa”

“A certain commentator on the (Manasa Lauhumanasa of Manjula) has lamented:

Indeed the siddhantas like Paitamaha differ from one another in giving astronomical constants. Timings are different as the siddhantas differ i.e. the measure of time at a particular moment differ as computed by the different siddhantas. When the computed timings differ Vedic and domestic rituals which have correct timings as components for the performance and in turn its effectiveness goes astray. When Rituals go astray the world order gets disrupted. Alas we have precipitated in a calamity.

Nilakantha Somastvan then replies,

O faint hearted there is nothing to be despaired about. One has to realize that the 5 Siddhantas have been all correct at a particular time. Therefore one must search for a Siddhanta that does not show discord with actual observations at the present time. Such accordance with observation has to be ascertained by Astronomical observers during times of eclipses etc. When siddhantas show discord i.e. when an earlier Siddhanta is in discord observations should be made of revolutions which would give results which accord with actual observations and a new Siddhanta enunciated.

Drig is based on a scientific model which is accurate past compare. Today’s software’s compute positions in line with the NASA Model, and as observed by modern Planetariums with powerful telescopes. Drig cannot be wrong. Long live Drig.

[rishirahul]

'Drik', nor 'drig'. I speak of the spelling.

RishiRahul

[astro123]

Good inputs from thirtha above...SSS basically throws Vimshottari dasha out of whack...atleast it does that to my chart when it shifts my Moon 2-3 degress and i have seen that happening to other charts with SSS..But there will be individuals where SSS might make more sense to their chart...

[krishnagopal1968]

Dear Vic,

In my experience all of my improvements in understanding and utilizing astrology always came and come when I dive DEEPER into the basic, fundamental things.

Thanks for providing this nice insight.

[krishnagopal1968]

Tirtha ji,

Lucid explanations! It would have been better if you have participated in this forum much earlier!

Now Lova is lucky to have Rishi Rahul ji too.! (pranams sir)

[rishirahul]

Good inputs from thirtha above...SSS basically throws Vimshottari dasha out of whack...atleast it does that to my chart when it shifts my Moon 2-3 degress and i have seen that happening to other charts with SSS..But there will be individuals where SSS might make more sense to their chart...

Hi,

Dasa systems, ayanamsas are a kind of 'progressions'.

Dasa progressions can cater to different types of needs, as the purpose the dasas are used for.
While ayanamsas are more base, or timing oriented.

The best ayanamsa is the one which should be compatible with the various dasa systems.

Sometimes we get influenced by the SYSTEMS that we are USED to.
Being used to something is like a HABIT.


RishiRahul

[astro123]

thanks rishi..what u wrote makes sense..So i assume u follow Drik with lahiri ayanamsa ?

[rishirahul]

Tirtha ji,

Lucid explanations! It would have been better if you have participated in this forum much earlier!

Now Lova is lucky to have Rishi Rahul ji too.! (pranams sir)

Hi krishnagopal1968,

Thank you for this 'Wonderful' Welcome!

RishiRahul

[rishirahul]

thanks rishi..what u wrote makes sense..So i assume u follow Drik with lahiri ayanamsa ?

Hi astro123,

Should I mention this?
Actually my methods are different.

Yes, I use drik with confidence.. also use several ayanamsas like Lahiri, B.V. Raman and 2 others for further directions in predicting better timings (certainly B.V. Raman was not a fool, and his ayanamsa has much sense, but does not work well with divisional narayan dasas); but I find Lahiri most compatible with 360 degrees solar year (its all in jhora software).

As said earlier, many ayanamasa work well as they are like progressions.

This is a very confusing issue to explain in simple words; but your post was real good, and very acceptable.

Thank you,

RishiRahul

[Vic DiCara]

Hi Mr.Vic

am just giving one example in your chart. when these two systems are applied to your chart, three planets change positions in D-9. given the importance of D-9 will this not make the predictions completley different when using these two systems?

Dear Kandhan, May I trouble you for a more complete explanation of what three planets these are and what change there is?

[Vic DiCara]

Dear Thirtha Chengappa Ji,

Thank you very much for your reply and your welcome.

I cast your chart using Drik / Lahiri Ayanamsha. Lagna is in Makara @ 1Deg 40. I am uncomfortable with D1 lagnas being at the Border. Just wondering if the you have rectified your birth time.

Pretty constantly "rectifying" it - but I am content with what God provided on my birth certificate. 1.40 Capricorn is extremely befitting my experience of life.

Using S.S.S. the lagna moves back dangeriously @ 0.29.
My point is that the Ayanamsha is everything.

Right, so many things are "everything." What about an accurate birth location? Move the location just a bit and the lagna starts wobbling into new amshas. Accurate ayanamsha is a similar monkey wrench. Therefore I don't give much passion to topics on these sorts of things. There are too many variables. I have to pick what I pick and make it work.

If God shows me a better way, I should not be so thickheaded that I ignore it. For example, recently I discovered that per Surya Siddha I should use the nakshatra year, not the savana year for Nakshatra Dasha calculations. I did so and astrology got easier for me. So I am not against these sorts of refinements, but I think that it there are more pressing matters and the more fundamental levels that I need to concern myself with.

Using S.S.S. the dasha of Guru started in august 2005. If we use Drik, the Dasha of Guru started in April 2004 at the age of 33 and 7 Months. We are talking about a difference of roughly a year and 4 months.

Now I can see the value in this. Thank you for clearly pointing it out!

By nakshatra years, my Jupiter (vim, of course) dasha began September 7th 2003. By savana, which I have abandoned, it is April 3 2004. Now by SSS you say it is August 2005. I see that this is significant. Thank you.

[Vic DiCara]

I for one am staunchly behind drik, and with good reason. Let me explain.

Drig is based on a scientific model which is accurate past compare. Today’s software’s compute positions in line with the NASA Model, and as observed by modern Planetariums with powerful telescopes. Drig cannot be wrong. Long live Drig. [/b][/i][/color]

I am inclined with you on this. Science must be verified by observation ("Drig")