Retrograde and Exalted = Debilitated?

[marian i.]

Hi,

Helius, it appears to me that your t.o.b. is 14:17:25, but this only in the case of a slight error in the time given by the hospital (I mean that this is not a rectification, I was just looking at some clear rules like Kunda, PP etc.). The time 14:15 is wrong for sure.

1. Mercury is not combust, as per my knowledge. You are now in Mercury Dasa, but he is with another 3 planets, thus he will give the results of one of these planets, not his own result. Mercury with 2 natural malefic planets is also malefic. Thus, the order is (from the most malefic to the most benefic): Saturn, Sun, Mercury and Venus. Saturn will give in his Dasa the results of Venus, and Sun will give in his Dasa the effects of Mercury. So, you are now in Sun Dasa;

2. Necchabhanga of Venus is given by the placement of Jupiter in the kendra from Moon and by the conjunction with Mercury, even if Mercury is exalted and retrograde. But, because Mercury, Venus and Saturn are togheter, all 3 are powerful (this is from Nadis). Also, Venus, Mercury, Saturn and Sun togheter is a Raja Yoga for wealth in Nadi astrology. (Moreover, Jupiter is in a kendra from Lagna and gives Necchabhanga to Mercury). But still, due to the retrogradation of Mercury, he is not as strong as in his exaltation Rasi, due to his retrograde motion. A planet with Necchabhanga is not as powerful as one in exaltation;

3. You do not have Kemadruma Yoga, because you have at least one planet in a kendra from Lagna (Jupiter). Kemadruma Yoga is a rare Yoga. But, some authorities gives Kemadruma Yoga even if the kendras from Moon are occupied only by malefic planets, and you have this combination. I do not agree with that view, and you can see a case of non Kemadruma Yoga even in the chart of Donald Trump. Thus, you do not have this Yoga.
[Also, Ruchaka Yoga is formed only from Lagna, not from Moon. Thus, you do not have this Yoga.]


Regards,
M

[marian i.]

Hi,

Dear Helius, why don't you open a thread for you, in the free rectifications section? I promise that I will make the rectification for you. I can say this or that now, but if the time is wrong, how to be sure of something in your chart? For Pisces Lagna in Navamsa 7th is occupied by Saturn, and this placement shows early marriage, normally, not delayed one. Only in the case of retrograde Saturn it will be delay. Saturn in 7th is in his Dig Bala house. This is just a small observation.
Thus, you have some thread or not?


Regards,
M

[astrolearner15]

Thank you for the link, Krishnaji. I watched that video when it was first put on Youtube, but since it goes over a number of topics, it doesn't explore this combination with multiple charts.

[marian i.]

Hi,

We are discussing here about this issue of retrograde/exalted planets etc., and many texts gives different rules about it, but in the case of MahaPurushas Yogas or the house of education (4th house) the texts are clear in giving the formation of those yogas only from Lagna, not Moon and also, that the 4th house is the house of education. See the new thread on Argala (related also to the houses of educations). Thus, because we must learn the astrology by consulting the 3 sources, Guru, Sadhu and Shastras, we must ask the Gurus/ Sadhus about unclear rules, as that of this topic, but not about some new rules which are not found in any book of classics (as my knowledge goes). Thus, if someone gives a new rule not found in any book (shastra) this is deviation from the rules given by sages as Narada Muni/ Sanatkumara etc (see the Narada Purana). Those teachings are important and are working, not those gives by such and such new author.
In "Saravali" it is given the results for placement of Saturn- Venus in 10th from Moon to give an artist etc. In the case of K. Cobain exalted Venus shows a great and succesful artist. Also, a MahaPurusha Yoga gives at least medium life, not short life (afflicted gives medium life). Moon in 2nd from AL makes one rich. Lagna Lord is with the 2nd and 11th lords- this gives a Dhana Yoga (Lagna Lord is kendra and trikona lord). In 7th house gives Srimanta Yoga (rich) as Lagna Lord (Jaimini).

Another sloka for the subject of this thread:
" When a planet occupies his exaltation Bhava, but it is retrograde in his motion, he gets only his NecchaBala: he is without any strenght. Should a planet be retrograde while in his debilitation Bhava, his strenght is akin to that when in his exaltation"-from "Uttara Kalamitra" of Kalidas.

Regards,
M

[Black Cat]

[I][quote="Jan"]Just watched the Movie about Edward Snowden directed by Oliver Stone.
Felt inspired to have a look into his chart and found his 10th lord Saturn actually
exalted in Libra Retrograde. This might be an inspiring case study for anyone
interested. A brilliant career which backtracked when he left the game....as
everybody knows.
Is this a case which shows what my teacher said that sometimes an exalted Retrograde
planet gives excellent results initially, but later backtracks a bit...?

And all that in the Saturnus dasha running ![/quote][/I]

This might be the most valuable post in this thread because we all know who Snowden is and his huge contributions in a very controversial manner. See, controversies, conspiracies, and chaos? Defines retrogression.

No, not all retrograde planets act opposite of their nature (whether exalted or debilitated). It's all a hoax. The travesty is that not many have researched on the behavior of retrograde planets. Whether benefics act as malefics, or vice-versa, whether Jupiter (R) in Capricorn becomes exalted, or acts like one, not many Jyotishis have researched on it. Most just harp around quoting some classic.

The way I see it, as a layman, retrogression is a planet acting differently from the norm - as it is defying the odds or the norms. It doesn't mean that Saturn (R) in Libra becomes debilitated. Yet, it means that the planet is erratic and acts unconventionally. How exactly? I can't pinpoint because it's still a vague topic in Jyotisha.

I'll give you an example though: Osho had Jupiter (R) in Cancer. Tell me where - in this enlightened person's life - did it act debilitated? What it did do is give a different dimension to spirituality. Osho mostly spoke of Advaita Vedanta (even if it isn't obvious), but he did so in a very mundane, simple manner. And, Osho wasn't a Guru to the custodians of philosophy and religion, but to everyday people - who're lost and need a Guru foremost.

Venus (R) may make someone a rebel in artistic fields - surrealism? Jupiter (R), well placed and positively aspected, may actually mean a very spiritual person who has a very unorthodox and unconventional way of looking at spirituality, or someone whose Guru is unconventional.

You can't expect a snap-shot definition. Whether it's retrogression, Karakamsha, exaltation/debilitation, VRY, or anything other combination.

A eccentric person, who's an activist - highly influential, but not a position holder vs a well-mannered person, in a top position, but not that influential? An innovator who paves the path for the future, yet not a millionaire vs a millionaire who's hanging on the last threads of history?

All of these are successes. And, as people, especially Jyotishis or enthusiasts, we need to keep our mind open. One man's food is another man's poison, no?

[MyHead]

I know a case where Jupiter is retro and in Capricorn. The native runs Jupiter MD. He s doing extremely well in Career! Landed a super job with a hefty pay recently in the US. Scorpio Ascendant, with 3rd house Jupi aspected by venus

[astrolearner15]

I have been watching Joni Patry's videos, and it seems that she strongly follows the rule that Retrograde exalted planets act as if they are debilitated and vice versa. Moreover, she has in the past shown examples where retrograde and debilitated planets were acting as exalted planets.

[neelkumar]

Hi,

Yes, this rule always works.

Exalted+ retrograde= debilitated;
Debilitated+ retrograde= exalted.

Retrograde means "the opposite results", astrologicaly. Also, for all the retrograde planets this rule works. If someone has Jupiter in Gemini retrograde, he will act like Jupiter in Saggitarius. The worst placements are of natural malefic planets in kendra, in own house but retrograde. Hell on earth type of results.
The rule is given in a book which is considered authoritative (I forgat for now the title/ author of that book).

Regards,
M

Such an important topic and useful responses.

Kindly refer my chart - my retro Jupiter is in Aquarius lagna.
So, obviously, it's debilitated.

So, according to this rule, does it mean my Jupiter is exalted?
So, according to this rule, this retro Aquarius Jupiter will act as which house Jupiter?

But, Astrology softwares like JHora and especially Prashara Light show my Jupiter as debilitated?!

Thanks,
Neel

[astrolearner15]

^^ Do you mean your Jupiter is in Capricorn, as that is the sign of debilitation, rather than Aquarius?

[neelkumar]

^^ Do you mean your Jupiter is in Capricorn, as that is the sign of debilitation, rather than Aquarius?

Sorry, I didn't quite get your question.
What I meant is Jupiter in Aquarius isn't supposed to be a good placement..that too in the lagna..right?
But then, according to the rule mentioned in this thread..does Jupiter (because Jupiter is retro in my chart), make it a good placement?

[astrolearner15]

^^ In your previous post, you mentioned that your Jupiter was debilitated. So I was confirming whether it was in Capricorn or Aquarius.

[neelkumar]

My Jupiter is in Aquarius. He is retrograde. Aquarius is also my lagna. And I am Capricorn Rashi.

[nneeysar]

Respected Marian I,
I hope you are fine and enjoying good health. I want little help. Saturn Retro in Saggi, so it will work as saturn in gemini. So my question is saturn in gemini works better than saturn in Sagittarius, as saturn is neutral to jupiter and friend of mercury.

Thanks

[marian i.]

Hi,

Dear Neelkumar, Jupiter is not debilitated in Aquarius (only Capricorn is the debilitation Rasi for Jupiter). In Aquarius is not that good because this Rasi is ruled by Saturn and Rahu, which are tamasic in nature, and also Aquarius is the natural bhadaka Rasi for the natural Zodiac. In your case, Jupiter gives the results of the opposite Rasi- Leo. This is much better.

Dear Nneeysar, Saturn is equally good in Saggitarius and Gemini. But, some Raja Yogas are formed by Saturn in Saggitarius (like Saturn in Lagna in Saggitarius), which is considered a good placement (also for Saturn in Pisces).



Regards,
M

[neelkumar]

Hi,

Dear Neelkumar, Jupiter is not debilitated in Aquarius (only Capricorn is the debilitation Rasi for Jupiter). In Aquarius is not that good because this Rasi is ruled by Saturn and Rahu, which are tamasic in nature, and also Aquarius is the natural bhadaka Rasi for the natural Zodiac. In your case, Jupiter gives the results of the opposite Rasi- Leo. This is much better.



Regards,
M

Thanks marian i. for clearing my confusion.
'Guess my Leo (7th) House is already quite crowded with Sun in His own House, Mercury and Mars at loggerheads and now Jupiter!
So, what happens to my Lagna - it's vacant then? In my Navamsha, Moon in Pisces Lagna..

[marian i.]

Hi,

No, Jupiter is not in 7th house, but in Lagna and will give the results of Jupiter in Lagna but in Leo, and also its lordship (2nd and 11th houses) remains the same. Thus, you have Aquarius Lagna with Jupiter, but Jupiter is more sattvic by retrogradation.
Jupiter in 1st for this Lagna is a strong Dhana Yoga (ruler of 2nd and 11th as karaka for these houses). Whichever house Lord aspects/ occupy the Lagna will give the blessings of that house to the native.

Jupiter in Lagna and Mars in 7th is not a good combination, thus it is good if you will do some remedies for this.


Regards,
M

[neelkumar]

Thanks marian i.

Could you please give an example or a situational instance explaining "Jupiter is in Lagna and will give results of Jupiter in Lagna but in Leo" - kinda confusing to me!

In your very early posts, you mentioned:

Hi,

Yes, this rule always works.

Exalted+ retrograde= debilitated;
Debilitated+ retrograde= exalted.

Retrograde means "the opposite results", astrologicaly. Also, for all the retrograde planets this rule works. If someone has Jupiter in Gemini retrograde, he will act like Jupiter in Saggitarius. The worst placements are of natural malefic planets in kendra, in own house but retrograde. Hell on earth type of results.
The rule is given in a book which is considered authoritative (I forgat for now the title/ author of that book).

Regards,
M

1) "He will act like Jupiter in Sagittarius" - the word "act" means?
2) So the rule "Debilitated + Retrograde = Exalted" - doesn't hold in my chart or does it - since Jupiter is retrograde in Aquarius Lagna ?
3) These terminologies like "exalted" or "debilitated" - do they mean range - for example - I have no debilitated planets in my chart but I have no exalted planets either..but..some planets are enemies and one or two are friends - your thoughts please.

Thanks again!

P.S. Personally, if you ask me, I am pretty scared of my Jupiter - out of my sheer indulgence, early on in 2016, I wore a Pukhraj - within a month, my Dad's elder brother - whom I relate with quite a lot personality, mindset and even physical appearance-wise, passed away suddenly. That shook me so much that I immediately removed the Pukhraj - so much was the effect that even now sometimes, I get nervous thinking about the incident. Nonetheless, the entire 2016 was an awful year for me overall - right from the beginning until the end.

[nneeysar]

[quote="marian i." post_id=237026 time=1489518935 user_id=17503]
Hi,


Dear Nneeysar, Saturn is equally good in Saggitarius and Gemini. But, some Raja Yogas are formed by Saturn in Saggitarius (like Saturn in Lagna in Saggitarius), which is considered a good placement (also for Saturn in Pisces).



Regards,
M
[/quote]



Thanks Marian I for reply. I understand but confused, as my saturn is retro in my birth chart, so i am sending my birth details. Also jupiter is in enemy sign in gemini. So any chance of jupiter cancellation of debilitation, like neech bhang or else???

Date of Birth: 24-Aug-1989
Time of Birth: 00:30 AM
Place of Birth: (city) Faisalabad, (Province) Punjab, Pakistan

Thanks. With Best Regards

[anilesh47]

The concept of retrograde is simple. Exalted planet retro means work as a debilitated. It means it works as exactly opposite house. For example Saturn exalted in Tula and it works like debilitated if it is retro, it means saturn debilitated in Aries which is exact opposite of Tula. The same theory is in other retro planets.

[lightray94]

In my case it didn't work. I have saturn R in 7th (aquarius) and I feel having sasa yoga. whenever I take the initiative people follow me, even though I dont want to be a lead , experienced many times from my childhood

[anilesh47]

Its depend on case to case. Your saturn is retro in aquarius it means it works as exact opposite house it means Its Leo sign. And what is Leo? Leo itself is a Leader, Lion. Aquarius shows circle, followers..

[Khoo Hock Leong]

To have a more complete perspective :

A retrogade planet :

(1) Exhibit characteristics of the opposite sign. This is because by going backwards, it means the planet is no more taking itself in the sign it is placed. It is taking care of the other - the 7th to where it is placed. Through taking care of others, can one gain spirituality, which is what a retrogade planet is all about, a spiritual seeker.

(2) A Yoga or a conjunction or aspects with planets that are its friends or neutrals within its camp mean that he planet is tied back to the sign in which it placed. Thus the sign it is placed becomes more dominant.

(3) A Yoga or a conjunction or aspects with planets that are its enemies or neutrals in the other camp (and therefore friends or neutrals within the camp of the opposite sign) mean that the planet swerves towards the opposite sign again.

For (2) and (3) determine the net effect whether it is towards the sign in which it is placed or towards the opposite sign in which it is placed.

(4) A retrogade planet with no participation in any yogas from where it is placed or not conjuncting any planets from where it is placed or not aspecting or receiving aspects from where it is placed would primarily reflect on the sign where it is retrogading to ie. the previous sign. Even if (2) and (3) exist, the goal of the retrogade planet is to seek the characteristic of the sign 12th to it, the sign that epitomises spirituality to the planet.

So like my Saturn is in the 7th retrogading in Capricorn, it is seeking perfection through work of the 6th bhava where it has the sign Sagittarius overlaying over the 6th, notwithstanding it is exhibiting characteristics of Capricorn and Cancer - Capricorn because Saturn is receiving an aspect and itself is aspecting Venus, its friend; Cancer because Saturn is conjuncting the Moon.

Best Regards
Khoo

[Crystalpages]

Dear Khoo_jee,

Why would retrograde (anti-cycle) go 7 signs back? Bhrigu nadi recommends that it goes one sign backwards and that does make sense!

Perhaps myths about retrogrades have been OVER-STATED? They really are products of geocentric fixation?

Rohiniranjan

[neelkumar]

Can anyone really claim for sure if at all if a retrograde planet (for example : retro-Jupiter in Aquarius lagna, in my chart) will behave any different as compared to a non-retrograde planet?

Some say the effects are all same!
Some say the effects are different - now that's where there's even more confused analyses - as results/effects vary from astrologer to astrologer!

[Khoo Hock Leong]

Crystalpages :

The thing is in my chart it works.

Saturn exhibiting Cancer (7th sign) shows I am protective of myself to a large degree, Saturn in Capricorn (where it is situated) shows I set goals for achievement, Saturn in Aires (retrogade Saturn change to Mars) shows I tend not to wait for achievement to fall on my lap but I go for it which is fuelled by Saturn conjuncting Moon, its enemy; Saturn back to exhibiting Capricorn after exhibiting its flash of Arian energy because of its aspect by Venus, shows in the way I do not extend my reach too far in terms of goals after the first initiation, Saturn in Sagittarius (the sign it is retrogading back to) shows my intense sagacity for philosophical type of discussion etc.

This is one case where everybody has its views on retrogade and it seems to work. There are at least 4 viewpoints here and half of them, based on what is stated, is supported by authoritative texts.