Stellium: More than 4 planets in a house

[hari766]

Too much ups and downs, in the happenings related to any particular house doesn't help to maintain a balanced personality. Especially if one of those planets is the Moon or lagna lord. For example, if it is in the 5th house, there is a chance of encountering a lot of happiness as well as grief related to children. This could speed up the renunciation factor. On the other hand, a Sannyasi is one who voluntarily gives up all external supports and prefers to stand on his own strength. Without a balanced personality (which lord Krishna refers to, as Sthitha-prajnatha), Sannyasa is difficult to maintain. Hence I think the actual taking up of Sannyasa, as different from mere renunciation (mental or otherwise), requires other planetary combinations that reveal the inner strength of the person.

In Phaladeepika I think, different types of Sannyasa as well as the different planetary combinations that lead to each, is discussed.

[Dev]

Hari:

You are not right at all. Too many planets in a house causes imbalance wrt a horoscope by the happenings and not wrt the person. The person is very balanced.

For eg. I love teaching, singing and continue to do that, I have been in a job and continuing in the same.
I joined the forum and did not change my id, did not leave, even there some leave due to being sensitive, some leave, come back, leave and so on. So I am more concentrated and balanced.

I gave example of also brahmins eating even meat or atleast egg, so they change but I did not inspite visiting 8 different countries. Some learn music, leave it, some study one subject, go for some other job, I am working in exactly same area, teaching same area, developing musical skills from day one. So consistencywise more consistent than people having scattered planets.

The happenings of course are not balanced. There is no set of rules wrt to happenings for eg sun - saturn period was very good, so was venus - ju. In spite of the happenings I am able to concentrate and maintain consistency which you people with scattered planets cant do. So some special power is probably there even they it gives problems.

[hari766]

Devji,

By "balanced personality", I didn't mean the matters you mentioned at all. It is not the consistency (in the sense you used) that I meant. Since the topic is "Sannyasa yoga", I was referring to the kind of balanced mindset (Sthitha Prajnatha) that is an essential requirement for a person who wishes to adopt Sannyasa. Lord Krishna outlines this in detail in the Gita 2nd Chapter, and then goes on to say that, since Arjuna was not having this balanced mind, he was better off doing nishkama karma, rather than venture into Sannyasa, until in the course of time, he develops it. Once a person gets this balanced mind, he would then be able to 'stand on his own feet', unperturbed by external circumstances, without which Sannyasa is bogus

Hope that I have made myself clear.

[Dev]

OK Hari, explain a bit more.

[wanderingSteps]

Well, I think the definition of 'sanyas' itself is different for a lot of us who are discussing this topic/ on this thread. And hence a lot of explanation is being shared, just to explain what 'sanyas' means/ is perceived as by that forum member.

Leaving the 'wordly' norms is 'sanyas' to some. For them it is like going to some isolated place/ ashram and leaving the 'material pursuits'.

But essentially, 12 houses represent 12 different aspects of our life. Having 4 or more planets in one house concentrate a lot of energy in one particular house, which essentially lead to the native not eager towards looking at the worldly manifestations of the other houses, which in turn may make it look like the person giving up the material 'moh'/pleasure related to those houses.
--
One thing though hari, is that before you call someone 'not balanced' as personality, it is good to imagine being in their position. Amitabh Bachchan too has 4 planets in one particular house. He is not perceived as 'not a balanced personality'. One should empathize with the fact, before providing a fast opinion /anything strong that, when you have to balance more than or a least 4 different kind of energies in same area of life, you are required to expend a lot of your effort. And besides spending the effort, having a sync with all the 4 different flavors. Difficult right. If one who has such a thing is able to understand that and achieve the balance, well, s/he is an artist. And who is Amitabh Bachchan? Then, the person - me- who is writing this, also, am one.

--
Another thing. Thank You for providing this phrase "Sthitha Prajnatha". Something deep to research on for few days and then few weeks to practice and see the results for ourselves. Simple search on this phrase is giving words to what my original quest was. Thanks once again. Really helpful.

[Dev]

Wandering steps
I think you did not understand what Hari said.
Anyone who achieves fame has to concentrate on certain areas only and not on others. So AMitabh Bachan and people in other areas as well, their energies are concentrated wrt certain houses and areas. This does not need any explanation.
But at the same time, balanced in terms of attitude and nature can also be meant by this but he said he did not mean that. He only meant about the energy.
Naturewise, those with crowded planets are more balanced since they seem to suffer more.

[hari766]

Ok I will respond to you, point by point.

Well, I think the definition of 'sanyas' itself is different for a lot of us who are discussing this topic/ on this thread. And hence a lot of explanation is being shared, just to explain what 'sanyas' means/ is perceived as by that forum member.

Sannyasa is clearly defined in Hindu scriptures, and my explanation is based on that. So if you follow the ideas mentioned in the scriptures, there cannot be much scope for ambiguity.

Leaving the 'wordly' norms is 'sanyas' to some. For them it is like going to some isolated place/ ashram and leaving the 'material pursuits'.

This "renunciation of the world" is one aspect of Sannyas. But it is not enough. A person on the path of Sannyasa, should be able to "stand on his knowledge of the Atma" - ie Atma-balam, should be his sole source of strength - the strong conviction that all this is the one all-pervasive Brahman and there is nothing other than Brahman. If you look at wordly people, when they get sick they go to a hospital (thereby depending on someone else, like some doctor, nurse etc). Now what does Sannyasa demand of a person?

The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad states that the Sannyasi should patiently undergo the physical illness as a spiritual Sadhana.

It is a different thing if someone else takes compassion on him and takes him to the hospital, which he should not resist either, but of his own volition, he should not seek the preservation of the body, through assistance from the hospital or somewhere else.

Similarly, a Sannyasi should not starve himself, nor refuse it if offered food, but he should not go after food, to fill his stomach. So there are many such rules.

Essentially, the Sannyasi has completely given himself up to God, or to his fate.

But essentially, 12 houses represent 12 different aspects of our life. Having 4 or more planets in one house concentrate a lot of energy in one particular house, which essentially lead to the native not eager towards looking at the worldly manifestations of the other houses, which in turn may make it look like the person giving up the material 'moh'/pleasure related to those houses.

That's not the point at all. Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa used to say, " If there is the least fibre on a thread, it can’t enter the eye of a needle". Just because a person happens to concentrate his energies on the matters related to a particular house, that doesn't make him any different from the rest. There is no 'partial Sannyasa'. I have three planets in the 10th house, with three others aspecting it, and I am called a workaholic, which I of course am. But that is just a peculiarity which doesn't take me any closer to Sannyasa, than others.

One thing though hari, is that before you call someone 'not balanced' as personality, it is good to imagine being in their position. Amitabh Bachchan too has 4 planets in one particular house. He is not perceived as 'not a balanced personality'. One should empathize with the fact, before providing a fast opinion /anything strong that, when you have to balance more than or a least 4 different kind of energies in same area of life, you are required to expend a lot of your effort. And besides spending the effort, having a sync with all the 4 different flavors. Difficult right. If one who has such a thing is able to understand that and achieve the balance, well, s/he is an artist. And who is Amitabh Bachchan? Then, the person - me- who is writing this, also, am one.

It is not my "fast opinion", as you call it. I am merely responding from the perspective of Sannyasa, as outlined in Hinduism.

Lord Krishna says

या निशा सर्वभूतानां तस्यां जागर्ति संयमी ।
यस्यां जाग्रति भूतानि सा निशा पश्यतो मुनेः ॥६९॥ (Gita 2.2.69)

That which is darkness to all beings, in it the Samyami (or the Sthitha Prajna), is awake.
That in which all these beings are awake and revel in, the Samyami perceives as darkness.

As I mentioned before, to be a Sthitha Prajna is essential, to be eligible for Sannyasa. Everyone other than a Sthitha Prajna is wallowing in darkness. Amitabh Bachchan, no matter his other qualifications, is no better than you or me, in this respect. All of us are unbalanced (literally translating the word Sthitha prajna).
--

Another thing. Thank You for providing this phrase "Sthitha Prajnatha". Something deep to research on for few days and then few weeks to practice and see the results for ourselves. Simple search on this phrase is giving words to what my original quest was. Thanks once again. Really helpful.

It's my pleasure

[Dev]

Hari

I dont agree with you. People dont call it partial sanyas but it exists. It is like we talk about good and bad, and so is it that only good and bad exist? But are there not people in between good and bad or not, it is there but we dont have an instrument to measure 60 or 53 % and so on. Upon advice they would not do bad.
So different shades are there of sanyas. My father was himself a partial sanyas.
He was an IAS extremely honest, workaholic but never cared much for mateiralistic pursuits. A person who was cook had slept overnight in hour house and stolen several silver vessals and gold and money. My mother was shocked but my father just went to the office. So my mother made the complaint to the police station and so on.

So just like u said, a real sanyas would not go to a doctor but will experience what ever in store for him, similarly, he thought and continued with his work. For the normal people it would look peculiar, but for him others would look peculiar. He probably took it as destiny and did not react much.

So everyone who becomes a sanyas would have to pass thro partial sanyas before he goes completly to that state. It is like a car or 2 wheeler, you cant stop abrupt, you go fast, slow down and stop, so different stages are there in everything. For convenience we use terms like sanyas and samsari but those who are not sanyasis are all samsaris, are they all the same?
Say, one is married but still goes behind other women too, another is a bachelor and is perfect in his behaviour, are they both equal samsaris?

[hari766]

Hari

I dont agree with you. People dont call it partial sanyas but it exists. It is like we talk about good and bad, and so is it that only good and bad exist? But are there not people in between good and bad or not, it is there but we dont have an instrument to measure 60 or 53 % and so on. Upon advice they would not do bad.
So different shades are there of sanyas. My father was himself a partial sanyas.
He was an IAS extremely honest, workaholic but never cared much for mateiralistic pursuits. A person who was cook had slept overnight in hour house and stolen several silver vessals and gold and money. My mother was shocked but my father just went to the office. So my mother made the complaint to the police station and so on.

So just like u said, a real sanyas would not go to a doctor but will experience what ever in store for him, similarly, he thought and continued with his work. For the normal people it would look peculiar, but for him others would look peculiar. He probably took it as destiny and did not react much.

Devji,
From the above I would say, your father was a partial renunciate. But to call a person 'partial Sannyasi' is like calling him someone able to see everything around him as a "partial Brahman", which is absurd. I hope you perceive the distinction I'm trying to convey.

So everyone who becomes a sanyas would have to pass thro partial sanyas before he goes completly to that state. It is like a car or 2 wheeler, you cant stop abrupt, you go fast, slow down and stop, so different stages are there in everything.

Not according to Hinduism. A person can get the proper mindset for Sannyasa, right in the midst of the most hectic activity, like in a battlefield, for example. And the injunction for all is, the moment you get Vairagyam, that very moment you give up the world, never to turn back.

For convenience we use terms like sanyas and samsari but those who are not sanyasis are all samsaris, are they all the same?
Say, one is married but still goes behind other women too, another is a bachelor and is perfect in his behaviour, are they both equal samsaris?

From the eyes of a Sannyasi, they are equally Samsaris, if they aren't able to perceive the unity underlying everything.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

If you look at the divisional parts of a bhava, Dwas-Amsha, for the 9th house, there is one part for a sanyasi, there is one part for Yogic practices which makes one a super being by attaining Ashta Siddhi, another part for Path of God, one part for charity and religion, one part for building choultries (rest houses for travellers) etc. Saanyasi is the LAST 12th of the part of the 9th bhava.

So all the 11 parts that come before the 12th part of the 9th bhava, gives clues on some ways that can be taken, each successful step make the person to reach closer into being a Saanyasi.

If Jupiter goes into the last part in the 9th bhava, pure meaning unaspected, in its own sign, preferably Pisces which is the sign that can be most detached of material things (that means a Cancer Ascendant) or the last such 12th portion of the 9th is in Pisces (that means a Leo Ascendant), the person can be a Saanyasi par excellence.

My Jupiter is in Pushkara Navamsa and Bhaga, in Pisces Navamsa, in the 4th pada of Stabbathasik Nakshatra where all the aforesaid veiling and the final unveiling of the soul, does give some detachment and renunciation. Saanyasi is a process, no one can jump into the deep pool at one go.

[wanderingSteps]

Hi Khoo Hock Leong

This is a very insightful explanation. I think I can experientially relate to what you are saying that,
"Saanyasi is a process, no one can jump into the deep pool at one go."

I want to ask you, if you can explain further, why do you chose the 9th house? Is it for an example and that any house's dwas-amsha can be looked at in the same manner? How should the very house where there are 4 or more planets relate to the 9th house in this context? Also, some people say that lagna chart is that what manifests in front of the world, and navamsha is what you are spiritually. So if the stellium/ 4 or more planets are in lagna chart, would it mean that you may not have a sanyasi mindset, but what manifests in physical will make it appear that you are?

[Dev]

Hari

From the above I would say, your father was a partial renunciate. But to call a person 'partial Sannyasi' is like calling him someone able to see everything around him as a "partial Brahman", which is absurd. I hope you perceive the distinction I'm trying to convey.

renunciate and sanyasi are synonyms,anyway partial renunciate if we say, you mean he is not becoming a sanyasi. I said we can call for convenience, there may not be a word in the dictionary but just to express the partial renunciation. It does not mean, he is leaving all wordly pleasures and goes into complete meditation or trans state or so.

Not according to Hinduism. A person can get the proper mindset for Sannyasa, right in the midst of the most hectic activity, like in a battlefield, for example. And the injunction for all is, the moment you get Vairagyam, that very moment you give up the world, never to turn back.

What I said is also write, Khoo also says that. Anyway vairagyam may come suddenly to select few to as per His blessings. His ways are always complex, that is why we all argue and have different opinions.
Anyway each one of us have different opinions, sometimes agree and sometimes not.

From the eyes of a Sannyasi, they are equally Samsaris, if they aren't able to perceive the unity underlying everything.

But for him everything is maya but we samsaris differentiate people that is important, we cannot treat criminals alike.

[hari766]

Hari

From the above I would say, your father was a partial renunciate. But to call a person 'partial Sannyasi' is like calling him someone able to see everything around him as a "partial Brahman", which is absurd. I hope you perceive the distinction I'm trying to convey.

renunciate and sanyasi are synonyms,anyway partial renunciate if we say, you mean he is not becoming a sanyasi. I said we can call for convenience, there may not be a word in the dictionary but just to express the partial renunciation. It does not mean, he is leaving all wordly pleasures and goes into complete meditation or trans state or so.

No, that's the difference that I have been trying to convey all along. Renunciation is just one of those steps (or to some, it's a mere byproduct) for a Sannyasi, but absolutely not a synonym!! Sannyasa is Samyak Nyasa, or traversing the right path. And that is the path outlined by the Upanishads/Gita, which is that everything is Brahman only.

When one develops strong conviction in the above truth, then he will reach the logical conclusion that since everything is Brahman, and that includes himself, then everything is within him, and he does not need to crave anything in the external world. So he naturally gives up desires, because they now become superfluous. So this is how renunciation becomes a byproduct.

Whereas if a person renounces certain things in his life, and if we want to use that to segregate him from the rest of the people, we can call him a partial renunciate. But with the clear understanding that, unless he develops the perception of the all pervasive Brahman, he is in no way near to Sannyasa yet, whether he renounces X or Y or Z.

Someone with many planets in one house will have likely concentrated maximum energies in that house. That is just a shifting of energies to that house. That is not renunciation at all. Not partial renunciation either. Because, renouncing the matters related to that house will prove to be the biggest, almost insurmountable hurdle before the person. That's why I quoted Sri Ramakrishna above (about making the thread pass thru the needle).

[Dev]

No, that's the difference that I have been trying to convey all along. Renunciation is just one of those steps (or to some, it's a mere byproduct) for a Sannyasi, but absolutely not a synonym!! Sannyasa is Samyak Nyasa, or traversing the right path. And that is the path outlined by the Upanishads/Gita, which is that everything is Brahman only.

When one develops strong conviction in the above truth, then he will reach the logical conclusion that since everything is Brahman, and that includes himself, then everything is within him, and he does not need to crave anything in the external world. So he naturally gives up desires, because they now become superfluous. So this is how renunciation becomes a byproduct.

Whereas if a person renounces certain things in his life, and if we want to use that to segregate him from the rest of the people, we can call him a partial renunciate. But with the clear understanding that, unless he develops the perception of the all pervasive Brahman, he is in no way near to Sannyasa yet, whether he renounces X or Y or Z.

To renunciate is the verb as well as noun but sanyasi is a noun. In the verb context, it can be easily said, he is partially into it. I totally agree that unless one develops the perception of the all pervasive Brahman, he is in no way near to Sannyasa.

Someone with many planets in one house will have likely concentrated maximum energies in that house. That is just a shifting of energies to that house. That is not renunciation at all. Not partial renunciation either. Because, renouncing the matters related to that house will prove to be the biggest, almost insurmountable hurdle before the person. That's why I quoted Sri Ramakrishna above (about making the thread pass thru the needle).

I never said it is total renunciation. In fact, I have always said I am materialistic and nowhere near sanyas in many posts. And it is the same with many others with crowded planets as far as I have seen in this forum as well as outside.
But if one house has concentrated energies, that does not mean one will be simple in other aspects or no interest in other aspects at all. For eg. he may be an artist and scientist, he may concentrate on that, that does not mean he will sleep on the floor, not own car, adjust any food and so on. Sometimes he may but when one does not even have these desires, then he is definitely a partial renunciate which is definitely a pathway to sanyasa and I dont mean that he is close to sanyasa, but he is closer than others who can not even think of doing all this.

There is different pathways to sanyasa, sudden enlightenment is one, the other is going step by step slowly leaving out the desires one by one. Tulsidas I think was extremely fond of his wife and then finally he left that desire. So just one desire is easier to leave when you are made to understand that it should not be so by God.

It is like you said, for a sanyasi, all are samsaris but it is because he is realised and may be correct from his angle but we are all samsaris and we know that one should have morals, honesty, sincerity, discipline and so on. So one with these qualities is definitely ahead of others. We are definitely affected by people who lack these and we cannot talk like sanyasi saying OK, we will continue to do our karma and let him do his. We are definitely affected and deeply hurt since we are not realised souls at all. And then one who gives up several desires is also close provided the one desire that he has or concentrates on is not a bad one.

[Khoo Hock Leong]

wanderingsteps :

See this link on the 144 portions of a chart, and note the 9th bhava 12 portions, and then you understand :

http://www.barbarapijan.com/bpa/amsha/d ... ortion.htm

[hari766]

I never said it is total renunciation. In fact, I have always said I am materialistic and nowhere near sanyas in many posts. And it is the same with many others with crowded planets as far as I have seen in this forum as well as outside.

I was of course replying in a general sense, not related to any particular individual. I just wanted to highlight the ideal of Sannyasa, which is often misunderstood...

But if one house has concentrated energies, that does not mean one will be simple in other aspects or no interest in other aspects at all. For eg. he may be an artist and scientist, he may concentrate on that, that does not mean he will sleep on the floor, not own car, adjust any food and so on. Sometimes he may but when one does not even have these desires, then he is definitely a partial renunciate which is definitely a pathway to sanyasa and I dont mean that he is close to sanyasa, but he is closer than others who can not even think of doing all this.

There is different pathways to sanyasa, sudden enlightenment is one, the other is going step by step slowly leaving out the desires one by one. Tulsidas I think was extremely fond of his wife and then finally he left that desire. So just one desire is easier to leave when you are made to understand that it should not be so by God.

There cannot be a slow or step by step renunciation. If a person renounces many things, but retains the desire for one thing, like for example, the desire for sex, then soon that desire will engulf his entire mind. That will not allow him to sleep. It will develop into an overwhelming passion. Such a person is nowhere near absolute renunciation. It is again a mere shifting of mental energies from one desire to another. In Tulsidas's case, yes due to the timely advice of his wife, he took a turn and finally left that overwhelming desire, but how can we say that for him it was 'easier' than in the case of a person whose mind is immersed in many things? There are many instances in history where people, otherwise great, spent entire lives in grappling with the sex desire alone.

[hari766]

Again, let me quote Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa on 'true' renunciation vs 'step by step' renunciation.

http://savitri.in/blogs/light-of-suprem ... in-a-flash

[Dev]

See Tulsidas had liking for his wife which he gave up and started to concentrate on God. Paramahamsa's story is just one example.
See Kannadasan the famous poet had huge weakness for women and then he fell ill and was given prasad after which he was cured, he then became Krishna devotee.
Every person with just one lust would find it easy because when he is in too much greed, he would soon be falling prey to it. See Maidas was too greedy for money, he touched his daughter who became gold, then he realised.
If you have multiple desires, you have to leave one by one, you wont get gyanodaya but with just one lust, you are soon given the opportunity to learn that it is a blunder that you had done.

For example, if a person is too much after sex but has no other weaknesses, he comes across a woman whom he falls in love with misbehaves and then she starts to shout, he then to protect himself and his image has no other option than killing her, so he kills and then he repents throughout his life.

Of course this is negative way but there are other ways too like he loves a lady but is shocked to see her with someone else. So it opens his eye and feels that he should only love God.

I know that you are talking in general, I am too talking in general though I am quote my example too when needed.

We are all samsaris and so we cannot think of enlightenment like Buddha.

Now see the adharma and atleast people who follow some dharma are pained immensely by adharma around in this kaliyuga.
As you said, for sanyasi everyone is same, so he is in a different level and we cannot comment on that. When we live in a society we need to be disciplined, honest and all that, sanyasi will not look into this and so for him a honest samsari as well as a corrupt politician, a murderer, a rapist all are same, which definitely will not make sense to we all since we live in this society amidst such people and not amidst sanyasis.

[Dev]

One point I agree, too many planets in a house will not help in sanyasa, it can only lead to depression.
Not all are destined to become sanyasis. Almost all in this forum with crowded planets are samsaris.
I gave example of my own case somewhere where I said, I am flexible and not rigid wrt food, sleep, place etc which are qualities that I possess, I did not mean this as a real renunciation, with respect to these aspects, it is.
However, I am against adharma, back biters and I get very angry, would be waiting for their downfall and have a never forgive attitude towards them. I have never conquered kama, crodha, lobha and moha but it is relative, in some aspects I have. I am nowhere close to a sanyasi and it is impossible for me to become one unless I have some sudden darshan of God or so.

[hari766]

Devji,
I somehow didn't see this second post from you, until now. Yes I fully agree. It is all relative...

[Dev]

Fine.