Tapasvi yoga.

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[elipsis]

weak lagna lord destroys the integrity of a person, when the planet loses its main qualities that means the individual is leading a life without any purpose. for example: for leo ascendant sun in libra will make the individual lose all the sun qualities, he will be after pleasures - willing to gamble, drink, cheat and be corrupt. So this makes the birth pointless, a birth in a certain lagna is supposed to bring you some life lessons in that birth but when its weak you don't learn any lessons and most yogas which are dependent on that lagna lord (usually 5,9 and kendra lords) will not function properly.

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Regards

[Snr]

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[elipsis]

I have simplified my explanation by quoting the aspects. I cannot due to time constrains explain everything in one post. Let me just give you a brief overview

Rahu means strangers - it could be anybody you don't know personally, someone outside your family, someone or something imaginary or unknown. The internet is the work of Rahu - it enables communication with strangers and gives access to new information regularly. Facebook is a web of strangers interconnected through complex algorithms- people can share, transmit their thought quite easily with little effort.

So this Rahu is conjunct with Moon, this means you can easily get influenced by anything that you see.

Mercury - the self-sufficient knowledge hoarder is exalted and without any Guru...there is no jupiter aspect on him so there is no one to guide him properly, he is alone gathering information from Rahu and Moon and doing his own stuff. So this makes the person vulnerable to a lot of things. He will have crazy ideas - untested and untrained by seniors - so he is bound to fall back.

Saturn which is the main karmic planet is in a benevolent sign of Pisces along with Ketu, while this combination is good it is aspected by unreliable combination in Virgo

Lagna lord Mars is weaker and its depositor is afflicted....this is also not good.

There is nothing to be scared about...this is just information which you can consider when you would have to make any tough decisions.

Regards

[Snr]

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[elipsis]

You have to first find out which combinations are making a yoga weak before you can come to a safe conclusion. Always check what other planets are influencing a yoga-combination. Most people have 90% of the yogas destroyed...so its quite normal.

What about the aspects of divisional charts?

The divisions depend up on the depositor's strength in D1 without the aspects. Saturn in D9 libra is dependent on Venus in D1, 9th house, same applies to every planet.

Lagna lord gets a neecha bhanga.

I was referring to your tapasvi yoga but neecha bhanga is a different yoga. Weak lagna lord does not mean people don't get what they want, in fact weak planets will get you what you desire more easily than those who have strong lagna lord...but the planet won't help you if you mess up.

Regards

[Snr]

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[elipsis]

Is the aspect of Rahu on the moon and mercury who in turn aspect Shani which is the one the three planets involved in the much stronger combo of Shani,venus and ketu is the reason for the weakness for the Tapasvi yoga?

Yes, like i said - other planets influencing a yoga will weaken the yoga.

Is the aspect of some planet aspecting other planets which aspect one the main planets in a yoga is greater then the inherent strength of the planets involved?

They will dilute the yoga.

How does the conjuction of Rahu..merc...moon have more effect on the tapasvi yoga..then the planets originally involved who are much stronger?

they are not stronger with regard to tapaswi yoga.

Regards

[Snr]

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[elipsis]

Aspects have a tremendous influence- planets in the 2, 7, 9, 5 and 12th from the main planet have an effect on how the planet functions. The subject of yogas is an open debate and controversial - some people don't mind weak yogas because they are quite satisfied....like some people are ready to accept Raja yoga to mean having a job, house etc which I don't agree. So how strong a yoga is depends on how the astrologer interprets, so my view isn't the final word on your chart - there could be other astrologers who will give a different perspective. Its difficult for me to give a measured quantity of the dilution because I cannot know how much will satisfy you.

Regards

[Snr]

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[elipsis]

What u say is like a evil distant distant relative(Indirect aspect) effects us more than our own parents and degrades the whole house lol.

You email me and ask me to answer your topic and then you ridicule me and you tell me to edit my replies.

Ask someone else.

[Snr]

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[tylorechandra]

Some possible answers to your query:
1. Both Saturn and Venus are neechabhilashis and both close to their debilitation signs.
2. All the three are in the nakshatra of Saturn which is weak by virtue of placement as above.
3. Though placed well in the Navamsa, both Saturn and Venus occupy the 12th amsa (vyayamsa - w.r.t natal Lagna) and hence carry an element of Vyaya or loss.
4. Mars, which is also in Saturn’s nakshatra and is debilitated, afflicts Venus.
5. Though the dispositor of Saturn is Jupiter, they are not friends and each is uncomfortable in the other's sign - more so Saturn in Meena since Air and Water are not very comfortable with each other.

TKC

[elipsis]

Rahu conjunct Sun works like an eclipse - it will make Sun very weak for some time - so the individual will be weak and prone diseases for at least 36 years or two transits of Rahu (18 *2). This will also bring trouble to father within a few years after birth and grandson will also suffer minor problems after his birth. It will give good success after 48 years because when sun recovers after around 36th year there will be plenty of energy and vigour to do just about anything.

Regards

[GNE]

"weak lagna lord destroys the integrity of a person, when the planet loses its main qualities that means the individual is leading a life without any purpose. ..... So this makes the birth pointless, a birth in a certain lagna is supposed to bring you some life lessons in that birth but when its weak you don't learn any lessons and most yogas which are dependent on that lagna lord (usually 5,9 and kendra lords) will not function properly. "

Just pointing out Shah Rukh Khan , Serena Williams, Al Pacino, and many others have debilitated lagna lord.
Sure many getting Neecha Bhanga, (though even in SRK's case the NB isn't too strong as not in kendra/Trine...) but it seemed the writing here was based on that, and simply just the overall weak placement of Lagna lord.

This kind of writing (that I quoted) Isn't helping anyone...

One could just go find a pile of successful persons who's births also are very positive who have weak lagna lord (not successful criminals, or famous murderers etc..) .
Takes a bit of research sure, but that's just part of being an astrologer (researching / testing on charts).

Would things be better if lagna lord was in own / MT or exalted sign? sure...but I have come across many charts of people with super strong lagna lord and the people are "pointless births" really. (gambler, cheats, violent, criminal,etc.)
There's successful and unsuccessful people with all kinds of lagna lords.


Anyway I didn't come to reply about the yoga or anything, but just when I was browsing and saw that about lagna lord I couldn't sit back and say nothing.
Especially since one of the most morally positive, respected, successful people I know has a debilitated jupiter lagna lord (Sag lagna), and I know someone else who's brother is pretty much the lowest person, even their own family says they're a piece of crap / unsuccessful, no income, etc.. they have exalted lagna lord saturn(aquarius rising).

as always we must look at the entire chart before making major judgements.


Meanwhile,

" The subject of yogas is an open debate and controversial - some people don't mind weak yogas because they are quite satisfied....like some people are ready to accept Raja yoga to mean having a job, house etc which I don't agree. So how strong a yoga is depends on how the astrologer interprets, "

I completely agree with, very true.

[elipsis]

One being socially successful has nothing to do with the lagna lord - success or failure is a social issue and has nothing to do with astrology. In fact success or failure can be seen without the lagna but to be able to follow the path of the lagna - the main purpose 1, 5, 9 is quite a feat and won't be easy. The purpose of lagna is to have a set of goals and that you live by it otherwise any lagna would do for anybody. Why are you born in a certain lagna with its lord is weak? what does that tell you.... the weakest planet in the chart is the one which gives you what you wish for, but is that the right thing to do, is it effective, does it protect you when you land in trouble? Does it keep you healthy? Many a times we feel a planet is not giving what you wish for even though it is strong, the reason for that is such planets are indirectly protecting you from going in the wrong direction - an exalted planet has the essence of purity which destroys the MT sign by drawing too many boundaries and being selective, where as a debilitated planet has no boundaries but extremely dangerous and risky.

Regards

[GNE]

Yeah that's all true. Good reply,

my post above was just in response to the broad statement made earlier in the thread of : "weak lagna lord destroys the integrity of a person ..... So this makes the birth pointless " .

But it's cleared up now. I just hope new members read down the whole thread and don't stop and see that first post and then get depressed.

It's true exalted can sometimes cause difficulty too (Thus I suppose that "new rule for kali yuga" which appears in some classics that a chart with only exalted planet(s) and no debilitated planet will have poverty * )
*though poverty is not for sure, as like everything we must see the whole chart. Many classics write things in such broad "you suck" or "you're amazing" type statements , thus it is up to the smart astrologer to interpret it correctly.
(I'm not talking to you elipsis here , I know you know this. - This was for other members who may stumble on this post)

[elipsis]

well..it does make the birth somewhat pointless. I mean life isn't just about money, pleasures and getting ahead but they are as important as everything else, if you want to take something out of the experience you gather....you'll need a lagna lord or trikonas that stands by the dharmic signs, and yes the journey won't be easy as you'll be tested like no one else. If you don't learn anything but just live then you'll get exactly what you wanted in the subsequent lives but in a more profound way. Lord Krishna said when you save dharma the dharma will save you one day...so this is what it means.

But I think its important to understand the success which is deserved and something that you get by cutting corners. As for the yogas, the mahapurusha yogas does exemplify the qualities of hard work and dedication, these yogas do not give you that title overnight. Being a saint- or tapaswi requires years of dedication and practice, can anybody do it...or do they want it gift wrapped? There is nothing wrong in getting it gift wrapped but when you get something without efforts you won't know the real value of it and therefore you'll let it pass quite easily.

Margaret Thatcher, the former prime minister has exalted saturn in the Lagna, but how many decades she struggled to get to the post of the prime minister starting from the days of her humble beginnings to the days that earned her that saturn mahapurusha title, in english she was called The Iron Lady (ref to saturn). She is someone the world remembers but no one would ever remember most of us, what we can do at least is to learn from these great people from all over the world.

Regards

[GNE]

There's so many people out there with weak lagna lords and they're doing great things.
We shouldn't have the negative preconceived notions about a weak lagna lord ; assuming it's all about money/pleasures and getting ahead for them.
I know people with strong lagna lords that live by those principals. On the contrary, people with weak lagna lord that are way more enlightened and spiritual than anyone I've met.

So you should just admit you wrote incorrectly saying weak lagna lord = birth is pointless. (then you later changed to "somewhat pointless")
You must know that you (or anyone) can go find charts of people with weak lagna lord who are not all about money/pleasure/getting ahead. So the broad statements like "weak lagna lord makes the birth pointless" (later changed to "Somewhat") need to end.

Anyway, there's many debilitated lagna lord people ...*cough* Einstine * cough* who's birth's were far from pointless.

edit: and if you may respond with something about how we must see the whole chart, like look at Einstine's lagna lord's NBRY and conjunction with other trikon sign lord venus,etc .. then I say : Exactly!
thats what I'm saying... that just the single factor of poorly placed (by house/sign) lagna lord doesn't always cause such destruction / negativity to the birth on it's own.

[elipsis]

well, I stand by what I said. I don't read the chart the way you do.

[hiimnotcool]

Elipsis ji,

For someone with debilitated lagna and 9th lord (me ) is there anything to be done about the pointless birth or is it pretty much a "wait until your next life to reach nirvana, best of luck next time" scenario. I'm definitely worldy minded in terms of luxuries but also highly spiritually minded and realize that the internal is far more important. I practice mindfulness in my every day life to the point of watching where I walk so I do not step on a living creature (for example). Anyways, I'm reading the Tibetan book of living and dying currently so it's urging me to contemplate and realize death is a mere breath away.

Just wondering if anything astrologically can alter weak lagna lord in the way you read a chart. I know NBRY can traditionally (which I have for both 1 and 9 lord due to exalted saturn in Kendra) but I know you are skilled and adept at different forms.

Please respond.

[elipsis]

As I said earlier achieving success in what you want - career, marriage, money and passion doesn't need a strong lagna but living by the trikona lords 1, 5 and 9 needs strong lagna, strong will to move ahead. When planets are weak they are wide open for any possibilities, its up to you to choose what you want. Any unprejudiced evaluation mustn't begin with your own chart because your karma blocks you from extracting the truth out of it. First must come the acceptance and then comes the cure, but if you are unwilling to recognize the obvious flaws then how would the remedy work?

There was a student who went to a saint and asked him to teach the yoga of liberation, the saint said 'you don't have the capacity to learn yoga, come back after 200 years'. The student argued with the saint as being unfair, then the saint replied 'strip your self naked and parade the streets'...you see, the student simply couldn't do it because his ego blocks him from obeying the master but after a few more lives he went to the master who taught him yoga and attained liberation. The failure to recognize our own faults is the biggest weakness in our society, we think of ourselves as something special by birth when we are not. We are like a speck of dust in this vastness of space, tomorrow if you and I are wiped away nobody would miss after a few days..if you have that much humility - any remedy in the world would work. So no matter how strong or weak is your chart - there is always a way out and that comes only through acceptance.

Also every chart can be modified the way you want...like if mars is afflicted the remedy is to stay away from the karakas in real life...so staying away from your brothers and donating electrical appliances will alter the effectiveness of a planet. But can you do it? Are you destined to receive it? is a question which is wide open.

Regards

[GNE]

No problem elipsis.
I actually like your reply saying you stand by what you said and you don't read charts the same way I do.

I respect that much more since it's basically saying what I was going to say next: that in the end, this is just different opinions.

just to me when it comes to people living with different life focuses (like spirituality, family, career and getting ahead, etc...) there is no "Wrong" as it's just their karma and they are reaping it. Like if someone is just born into a luxurious family, or born into a powerful career handed down to them by their parents (I know someone who was basically handed a high position at their parent's company the moment they turned 18)..

Anyway,
I just had to call out that blanket statement of the pointless births. Everyone's heard both our opinions on the matter, I'll leave this thread now to get back on topic of that yoga, while letting other members to form their own opinions on the "lagna lord" subject.

carry on.