Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

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Vivek Surya
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Re: Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

Post by Vivek Surya » 10 Jun 2018

नमः शिवाय!
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
the laws of astrology too, while working well with respect to the world, doesn't work at all when we go beyond the bounds.
Astrology has a boundary, the boundary is till the effects of Graha forces acts on one! If the person realized internally, It's beyond, as you said, but till then It works, right! But external forces will definitely be their because we have definite mass!
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
Whereas what we call "Brahman" or "God" transcend this world in a huge way. In the Vedas this is referred to in the Purushasukta as "Sa bhumim visvato vritva, atyatishtad dashangulam". Hence, this Brahman can, at any moment, inspire our minds to perform actions
Yes we can only if it is written in fate i.e., if it is predetermined! We can't if our Vaasanaas aren't eligible! How can a person learn or attain or do something if his Vaasanaas aren't eligible to undergo that Karma! Everything happens due to solid reason! Not just randomly!


वागर्थाविव संपृक्तौ वागर्थप्रतिपत्तये।
जगतः पितरौ वन्दे पार्वतीपरमेश्वरौ॥ 🙏
By महा कवि कालिदास in रघुवंशम्

श्रुति स्मृति पुराणाणां आलयं करुणालयं |
नमामि भगवत्पादम् शङ्करं लोकशङ्करं ||🙏

hari766
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Re: Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

Post by hari766 » 10 Jun 2018

(contd)
How then, astrology and free will could be dependent? Here I will write something based on my understanding of the Gita. Astrology as a science of past-karma deciding the present and future karma, should predict a constant cycle of birth and death. But that happens only when a person performs karma with a desire for results. When a person doesn't shirk his karma but continues doing karma with nishkama bhava, ie absolute detachment to the results, in the course of time his mind becomes purified and then God grants him "buddhi yoga" or divine inspiration. This enables him to transcend prarabdha karma and leads him to "moksha" at the end.

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Re: Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

Post by hari766 » 10 Jun 2018

Vivek Surya wrote:
10 Jun 2018
नमः शिवाय!
Astrology has a boundary, the boundary is till the effects of Graha forces acts on one! If the person realized internally, It's beyond, as you said, but till then It works, right! But external forces will definitely be their because we have definite mass!
Undoubtedly, Graha forces continue to act on one, as long as his body survives in this world. But it is quite possible for his mind to be totally given over to Brahman, which is beyond any graha force whatsoever. Such people are called jivan-muktas.
Yes we can only if it is written in fate i.e., if it is predetermined! We can't if our Vaasanaas aren't eligible!
No, the grace of God is beyond any/all vasanas. That is why, even after self-realization, some saints might continue to display the effect of vasanas. In the Gita, there's a sloka like this. (paraphrased). The realized soul may kill crores of people, but still he doesn't incur sin, as his mind is with Brahman. The point is, all vasanas need not be exhausted before the attainment of realization.
Last edited by hari766 on 10 Jun 2018, edited 1 time in total.

hari766
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Re: Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

Post by hari766 » 10 Jun 2018

How can a person learn or attain or do something if his Vaasanaas aren't eligible to undergo that Karma! Everything happens due to solid reason! Not just randomly!
But Moksha is not karma-related :) I repeat, the world of vasanas-karma-graha forces-astrology is just the tip of the iceberg in the Brahmic ocean. This is why, imo, certain things can never be entirely predicted using the set rules of astrology. Being just a learner of astrology, however, I am open to correction :)

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Re: Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

Post by hari766 » 10 Jun 2018

Vivek Surya wrote:
10 Jun 2018
नमः शिवाय!
Astrology has a boundary, the boundary is till the effects of Graha forces acts on one! If the person realized internally, It's beyond, as you said, but till then It works, right! But external forces will definitely be their because we have definite mass!
The point is, there are no two sets of numbers. The real number system is a simplification of the complex number system. Real-number laws like the law of trichotomy cannot explain or solve all problems, because essentially numbers are "complex" in nature. Similarly, the true nature of a human being and his relation with God transcends the karma-graha level of astrology, eventhough it still works well to a large extent.

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Re: Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

Post by Vivek Surya » 10 Jun 2018

नमः शिवाय!
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
When a person doesn't shirk his karma but continues doing karma with nishkama bhava, ie absolute detachment to the results, in the course of time his mind becomes purified and then God grants him "buddhi yoga" or divine inspiration. This enables him to transcend prarabdha karma and leads him to "moksha" at the end.
Hari Ji :) Observe carefully, how he does Nishkaama Karma, he does only if that Karma is predestined, only then he can do. If It's not predestined how could he perform such act at all? Why the thoughts will come? Performing something is a thought & to do / perform that act his Vaasanaas are still acting on the person! But this isn't freewill, since he does only if it is predestined!
Vivek Surya wrote:
10 Jun 2018
Yes we can only if it is written in fate i.e., if it is predetermined! We can't if our Vaasanaas aren't eligible!
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
No, the grace of God is beyond any/all vasanas. That is why, even after self-realization, some saints might continue to display the effect of vasanas. In the Gita, there's a sloka like this. (paraphrased). The realized soul may kill crores of people, but still he doesn't incur sin, as his mind is with Brahman. The point is, all vasanas need not be exhausted before the attainment of realization.
Grace of God is what which comes from horoscope! (I meant in the form of Graha positions at time of birth) To get grace he perform some act, the act is certainly predestined, if his Vaasanaas are eligible, he will have grace! 1st of all Aashirvaadam of God is there on every creature! So, there's no special. If something has to change or become mature or for anything transition of Grahaas will answer.
Vivek Surya wrote:
10 Jun 2018
How can a person learn or attain or do something if his Vaasanaas aren't eligible to undergo that Karma! Everything happens due to solid reason! Not just randomly!
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
But Moksha is not karma-related I repeat, the world of vasanas-karma-graha forces-astrology is just the tip of the iceberg in the Brahmic ocean.
If a person is destined to attain siddhi, he'll. Since the yoga will certainly be in his horoscope. One cannot attain Siddhi if his horoscope isn't eligible to attain! How can he randomly get something when his Vaasanaas are still there?! If you say, It's his will! Then the WILL will also be in his horoscope.
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
This is why, imo, certain things can never be entirely predicted using the set rules of astrology.
I completely agree, but if Astrologers horoscope is eligible to understand, He can predict like Mihira (popularly known as Varaahamihira). It's hard if his horoscope is not eligible. As simple as such! :mrgreen:
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
The real number system is a simplification of the complex number system. Real-number laws like the law of trichotomy cannot explain or solve all problems, because essentially numbers are "complex" in nature.
This is correct only!
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
the true nature of a human being and his relation with God transcends the karma-graha level of astrology, eventhough it still works well to a large extent.
If there is relation, relationship with God (like how far we are with inner soul) has to be in one's horoscope!
Yes, Astrology still works by Desha-Kaala-Paatra!
वागर्थाविव संपृक्तौ वागर्थप्रतिपत्तये।
जगतः पितरौ वन्दे पार्वतीपरमेश्वरौ॥ 🙏
By महा कवि कालिदास in रघुवंशम्

श्रुति स्मृति पुराणाणां आलयं करुणालयं |
नमामि भगवत्पादम् शङ्करं लोकशङ्करं ||🙏


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Re: Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

Post by radiance » 11 Jun 2018

Very nice article. I have been putting off buying AutoB of a yogi and Yoga vasishta by Swami Venkatesananda for a long time as both are recommended by many. Will try to finish several random books I bought earlier first else these will just sit in the cupboard for a long time. :)

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Re: Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

Post by hari766 » 12 Jun 2018

Vivek Surya wrote:
10 Jun 2018
नमः शिवाय!
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
When a person doesn't shirk his karma but continues doing karma with nishkama bhava, ie absolute detachment to the results, in the course of time his mind becomes purified and then God grants him "buddhi yoga" or divine inspiration. This enables him to transcend prarabdha karma and leads him to "moksha" at the end.
Hari Ji :) Observe carefully, how he does Nishkaama Karma, he does only if that Karma is predestined, only then he can do. If It's not predestined how could he perform such act at all? Why the thoughts will come? Performing something is a thought & to do / perform that act his Vaasanaas are still acting on the person! But this isn't freewill, since he does only if it is predestined!
Vivekji,
Nishkaama karma is desire-less karma, and to perform karma without desires requires divine intervention. Why? Because, ordinarily, a person is caught up in the karmic cycle of births and deaths, in the world madeup of the three gunas of Sattva, Rajas and Tamas. This is a never-ending cycle, because the relation of karma-vasanas-desires-karma-vasanas-etc is like a perpetual motion machine. Ideally once a soul is caught up in the cycle, there is no possibility of release. However God or Brahman is a reality beyond the three Gunas. Hence obviously, beyond the bounds set by karma-astrology. The actions of God cannot be predicted through astrology/predestination. Hence, whenever God so desires to release a soul from this cycle, he inspires that soul to perform karma without desires (note - karma is still being performed) and that leads the soul to emancipation.

There is nothing original in my statements above :) This is the philosophy as advocated by the saints like Sri Ramakrishna Paramahamsa and also the texts like Bhagavad Gita, Srimad Bhagavatham. By no means am I denigrating astrology here. As a Vedanga, astrology always have/had a highly respected place in the Vedic pantheon. However astrology does not presume to dictate the actions of God.

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Re: Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

Post by hari766 » 12 Jun 2018

Vivek Surya wrote:
10 Jun 2018
नमः शिवाय!
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
No, the grace of God is beyond any/all vasanas. That is why, even after self-realization, some saints might continue to display the effect of vasanas. In the Gita, there's a sloka like this. (paraphrased). The realized soul may kill crores of people, but still he doesn't incur sin, as his mind is with Brahman. The point is, all vasanas need not be exhausted before the attainment of realization.
Grace of God is what which comes from horoscope! (I meant in the form of Graha positions at time of birth) To get grace he perform some act, the act is certainly predestined, if his Vaasanaas are eligible, he will have grace! 1st of all Aashirvaadam of God is there on every creature! So, there's no special. If something has to change or become mature or for anything transition of Grahaas will answer.
Here by "grace of God" what I meant is the divine inspiration that ultimately leads one towards moksha. What you mean by Ashirvaadam of God, that is available to all beings, for living in this world of the tri-gunas, is different. You may say that the chart will indicate whether a person will attain moksha or not. But that is only an indication of a possibility as shown by Grahas which however, by inherent nature are composed of the three Gunas. To go beyond the Gunas require God's intervention which the Grahas cannot decide or indicate by themselves.
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
But Moksha is not karma-related I repeat, the world of vasanas-karma-graha forces-astrology is just the tip of the iceberg in the Brahmic ocean.
If a person is destined to attain siddhi, he'll. Since the yoga will certainly be in his horoscope. One cannot attain Siddhi if his horoscope isn't eligible to attain! How can he randomly get something when his Vaasanaas are still there?! If you say, It's his will! Then the WILL will also be in his horoscope.
This is what I have been repeating. Moksha is not a "siddhi" like the Ashta-siddhis or nava-nidhis :). It is nothing to "attain" or "to get" or "to will". It is a release from the world of karma, grahas, astrology. It is possible only through external intervention. Just like, creation of the world which is possible only through the intervention of an external agency.

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Re: Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

Post by hari766 » 12 Jun 2018

Vivek Surya wrote:
10 Jun 2018
नमः शिवाय!
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
This is why, imo, certain things can never be entirely predicted using the set rules of astrology.
I completely agree, but if Astrologers horoscope is eligible to understand, He can predict like Mihira (popularly known as Varaahamihira). It's hard if his horoscope is not eligible. As simple as such! :mrgreen:
hari766 wrote:
10 Jun 2018
The real number system is a simplification of the complex number system. Real-number laws like the law of trichotomy cannot explain or solve all problems, because essentially numbers are "complex" in nature.
This is correct only!
There is the story of Rishi Markandeya that illustrates how God intervenes in various ways. There cannot be a better astrologer or predictor than lord Yama. And yet, according to the story, when God decided to intervene, he overruled matters to the extent of killing the lord Yama. This story may be illustrative, the concept is what I am pointing out. Western Science is deterministic, but we Hindus believe that the God who created the rules (karma, astrology) also exercises his power to break these rules, at will.

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Re: Suresh Chauhan Ji and other dear readers.. comments please

Post by KMD » 28 Mar 2021

Hi,

IMHO, astrology only indicates what's likely to happen in one's future.

Somewhat like a weather report indicates a likelyhood of rain. Now its upto the individual whether he wants carry an umbrella or not. That's the extent of his free will. Whether the umbrella proves useful or not isn't in his hands. That's his destiny or fate.

Regards, KMD
"The planets are always favorable to one who does not harm others, who possesses composure, who earns wealth through honest means and who restrains the baser instincts."

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