Recently I posted an article entitled, Some Do's and Don't's in Vedic Astrology. I feel it's important to read, especially for those on the forum who are giving readings and making predictions. Here's the link: http://lightonvedicastrology.com/dailyj ... 102012.htm, and here's the article:
Recently I was asked about Do's and Don't's when giving a reading. So, in response, here's a few basic ideas:
The main point is to have the primary motive of being of service, helping the individual, above any other motive like profit or power. If you have this intention then most pitfalls will be avoided.
The reading should empower and not leave the person with fear. Fear paralyzes the will, and everyone needs the will to take the next positive step in their lives. More importantly, there is always God's grace above astrology, so never paint a negative, fearful, 100% fatalistic picture. To assume that you know that something negative will definitely happen should never be said. Astrology only shows likelihoods, not inevitabilities. However, the chart may show an extreme likelihood, a dridha karma or fixed karma, indicating a slim chance for avoiding a negative outcome. Still, there's God's grace that may intercede, which the astrologer may not see, but that is easily seen by an omniscient yogi or highly intuitive individual.
On the other hand, we don't want to sugar coat or white wash an interpretation either by being unrealistically optimistic. Therefore, the best approach is to give a realistic analysis, yet without removing the hope of a positive outcome through right effort appropriate to the situation and remedial measures like spiritual practices, etc. Then the reading will be empowering.
The main guideline is to ask yourself, "Will this be helpful to the individual?" If it's not, then don't say it. Some astrologers think, "Heck with that being sensitive to the client stuff. I'm going tell it like I see it. Period. That's my job. It's up to them to digest it, and face their karma." Then they proceed to describe upcoming periods when the person will contract a fatal disease, get in a fatal car accident, their spouse will leave them, or lose the life of their child, etc. How helpful is that? The client leaves shaking with fear, feels like they've been beaten up by their karma, and lives the next some months with anxiety, depression, and a sense of helplessness. The astrologer may have thoroughly impressed them by their skill in being able to give the dates and times that these fateful events will happen. Worse yet, they may have suggested expensive remedial measures like gemstones as the only way out. Who benefits from this? Certainly not the client.
It's not like astrologers shouldn't talk about negative or dangerous possibilities. The point is to do so in an empowering way, by encouraging right action. If someone's been overworking and seriously neglecting their health, then the dashas and transits could indicate an upcoming period of illness, even serious illness. It's always best to believe that they have the free will to change that, so that the person applies themselves fully to the solution. The solution is inherent within the problem, but many astrologers only focus on the problem, and a negative outcome. It's a wasted opportunity. Malefic indications in the chart always represent the possibility of transformation through right effort. If, on the other hand, the astrologer gives wise advice that leads the person toward the transformation of negative karma, then it's a win/win for both the client and the astrologer. If it doesn't work out, and the person still falls ill, they will at least have benefited by the process. Then they can accept it as their destiny knowing that it couldn't have been avoided.
It's easy to bloat our egos by impressing others with our 'special' knowledge and amazing predictive skill. Avoid all that, by fixing your intention on sincerely wanting to help the individual. Then astrology will help you spiritually, otherwise it won't and can even be detrimental.
The astrologer's intention is either focused on helping the client or helping themselves. There's no other option. The three gunas, sattva, rajas, and tamas will be operative based on the intentions of the astrologer while giving a reading. This is how I break it down:
Sattvic: Intention to Serve
Rajasic: Intention to Impress
Tamasic: Intention to Deceive
Astrology is the most comprehensive form of counseling because it can address any area of life. It's also a predictive super science and an astrologer needs to realize the power of their words for good or ill. These are some of the main points I've learned from my Jyotish guru, K.N. Rao, about giving a reading.
Vaughn Paul Manley
Some Do's and Don't's in Vedic Astrology
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Vaughn Paul
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Re: Some Do's and Don't in Vedic Astrology
There was a practice that older astrologers used to follow, which I don't see many younger ones following now. It's the way we use the language has changed over time. The finer nuances of language are disappearing in the hectic, complex lifestyle.
The practice was to say in the probabilistic terms about a negative event in the chart, not in the absolutist terms. For example, "In this period there MAY BE some eye or speech-related problems, or some finacial problems may be there." Or, "Your Rahu Mahadasha may bring anxieties and tensions related to such and such factors."
It was never "You WILL face eye problems or financial problems in this period." Or, "Rahu Mahadasha WILL bring this problem to you."
The belief was that if the prediction comes true, the words of the astrologers were perceived as becoming the agency for activating the destiny of the chart - hence, eventhough it was written in the chart, the astrologer incurred the sin of bringing misfortune upon someone.
In other words, it was destined to happen, but a causative agency was needed to activate the event and astrologer's definitive prediction served as this causative agent.
Hence, astrologers used the term "May be" more than "will" in negative predictions. By saying "This may happen," rather than "This will happen," the window of multiple possibilities was left open, from which destiny could shape her own path, without involving the astrologer's words as activating agency.
I use it in my chart readings. But I have noticed many are not aware of this phenomenon.
The practice was to say in the probabilistic terms about a negative event in the chart, not in the absolutist terms. For example, "In this period there MAY BE some eye or speech-related problems, or some finacial problems may be there." Or, "Your Rahu Mahadasha may bring anxieties and tensions related to such and such factors."
It was never "You WILL face eye problems or financial problems in this period." Or, "Rahu Mahadasha WILL bring this problem to you."
The belief was that if the prediction comes true, the words of the astrologers were perceived as becoming the agency for activating the destiny of the chart - hence, eventhough it was written in the chart, the astrologer incurred the sin of bringing misfortune upon someone.
In other words, it was destined to happen, but a causative agency was needed to activate the event and astrologer's definitive prediction served as this causative agent.
Hence, astrologers used the term "May be" more than "will" in negative predictions. By saying "This may happen," rather than "This will happen," the window of multiple possibilities was left open, from which destiny could shape her own path, without involving the astrologer's words as activating agency.
I use it in my chart readings. But I have noticed many are not aware of this phenomenon.
Havan Manuals -
http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/phpBB3_0/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12791&p=124553#p124488
hymns -
1 http://www.vignanam.org/
2 http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/phpBB3_0/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11446&start=75#p93038
http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/phpBB3_0/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12791&p=124553#p124488
hymns -
1 http://www.vignanam.org/
2 http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/phpBB3_0/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11446&start=75#p93038
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Vaughn Paul
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Re: Some Do's and Don't in Vedic Astrology
Dear Saindavi,
I like that distinction between saying "This may happen" versus "This will happen." It can make an enormous difference in the client's experience of the reading and what they go away with. "This may happen," gives the impression that they may have the free will to avoid the negative event, versus "This will happen," causes the person to feel helpless to avoid it and that they're a spectator, just along for the ride, with regards to their karma. Vaughn Paul
I like that distinction between saying "This may happen" versus "This will happen." It can make an enormous difference in the client's experience of the reading and what they go away with. "This may happen," gives the impression that they may have the free will to avoid the negative event, versus "This will happen," causes the person to feel helpless to avoid it and that they're a spectator, just along for the ride, with regards to their karma. Vaughn Paul
Re: Some Do's and Don't in Vedic Astrology
Vaughan Paul:
That was a nice note by you on dos and donts on astrology.
By the way I dont think that there is distinction between saying "This may happen" versus "This will happen." In fact I feel the former seems more dangerous, since in my own experience, people have asked, OK you are hiding something, better say it, atleast I will be prepared. So I feel either saying the fact is better or just to hide and say do some pariharas and u may have a bad time wrt health or whatever.
In fact, many a time, the person asking the query expects truthful answer whatever and if we polish and say mildly after any bad thing happens, they ask why did u hide you could have told us the truth. So nothing wrong in saying the truth if one is sure. Of course if he says wrong thing, then it is bad like saying a person, he will lose his father and if he still lives, then it is bad.
Dev
That was a nice note by you on dos and donts on astrology.
By the way I dont think that there is distinction between saying "This may happen" versus "This will happen." In fact I feel the former seems more dangerous, since in my own experience, people have asked, OK you are hiding something, better say it, atleast I will be prepared. So I feel either saying the fact is better or just to hide and say do some pariharas and u may have a bad time wrt health or whatever.
In fact, many a time, the person asking the query expects truthful answer whatever and if we polish and say mildly after any bad thing happens, they ask why did u hide you could have told us the truth. So nothing wrong in saying the truth if one is sure. Of course if he says wrong thing, then it is bad like saying a person, he will lose his father and if he still lives, then it is bad.
Dev
Re: Some Do's and Don't in Vedic Astrology
I agree with Dev that it doesn’t work that way. If we tell someone, by seeing his chart, that something may happen, he will most of the times takes it for granted that the thing will definitely happen, the element of doubt, which the astrologer tries to bring in, not getting registered in the mind of the person. So the best attitude an astrologer can have is to be humble about his predictive skills as then the person taking the consultation will have this much solace when a negative prediction has been given to him that maybe the astrologer is wrong. But if a person shows his pride about his astrology knowledge and predictive skills, acting like he-knows-it-all and then says that something may happen, the person taking the reading will automatically think that the thing predicted will happen as the astrologer is super-confident in his birth chart reading ability. So an astrologer should never show too much confidence when it comes to reading birth charts.
Here in this forum itself people with their half baked knowledge in astrology say confidently, which chart is correct, and which chart needs correction of birth time, so after that if they say after checking a birth chart something may happen, who is going to bother about the word 'may'—they will be sure that the thing will happen, thinking of the confidence of the astrologer about his predictive skills. So it's very important for the astrologer to believe that it's difficult to be correct than to feign that doubt in front of the consulter.
Here in this forum itself people with their half baked knowledge in astrology say confidently, which chart is correct, and which chart needs correction of birth time, so after that if they say after checking a birth chart something may happen, who is going to bother about the word 'may'—they will be sure that the thing will happen, thinking of the confidence of the astrologer about his predictive skills. So it's very important for the astrologer to believe that it's difficult to be correct than to feign that doubt in front of the consulter.
Last edited by basab14 on 20 Nov 2012, edited 4 times in total.
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
Re: Some Do's and Don't in Vedic Astrology
As Yellow has rightly said, some half baked people in this forum say this is no good a horoscope that is good and all that, and give hundreds of pariharas that may not be relavant. Always chanting slokas is good no doubt but that may not be the relavant parihara for that particular problem. They fool the people asking them to change the gems that they are wearing and are so emphatic in their prediction and pose to be humble.
One should always be sure before making bad predictions- like saying this is bad horoscope and so on or atleast explain. Innocent people can still get carried away and it is happening still. Unless these people realise by themselves, it wont change.
One should always be sure before making bad predictions- like saying this is bad horoscope and so on or atleast explain. Innocent people can still get carried away and it is happening still. Unless these people realise by themselves, it wont change.
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Vaughn Paul
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Re: Some Do's and Don't in Vedic Astrology
Dear Dev, Deeps, Yellow and others,
Telling a person that a negative event "may" happen is still being honest. By saying it's a strong possibility, while conveying a sense of urgency with regards to taking right action, employing remedial measures to avoid it, is empowering the person.
If you convey that a negative event will definitely happen, are you willing to bet your life on it? Is that really being honest, or are you fooling yourself? If you can't, then why bet someone else's life on it, and why would you say it to them? It's presumptuous to assume that you know with 100% certainty that a negative event will happen, no matter how good an astrologer you are. K.N. Rao doesn't do that and he's one of the best astrologers alive. He doesn't scare people with negative predictions and cautions against this. It's the attitude of benefiting others with astrology that's important, if you want astrology to benefit you personally/spiritually.
Here's a quote from K.N. Rao on this topic:
“It is the moral duty of a successful and conscientious astrologer not to turn his client into a fatalist. More often than not when an astrological prediction is fulfilled people begin to develop a blind faith in astrology. It is bad both for the growth of astrology as a super science and for the astrologer himself who may be sapping someone's initiative through an over~emphasis on a prediction of his. All astrological predictions, fully successful, half successful or failed ones teach the astrologer the most important lesson: it is only God's law that prevails.” ~ K.N. Rao
Vaughn Paul
Telling a person that a negative event "may" happen is still being honest. By saying it's a strong possibility, while conveying a sense of urgency with regards to taking right action, employing remedial measures to avoid it, is empowering the person.
If you convey that a negative event will definitely happen, are you willing to bet your life on it? Is that really being honest, or are you fooling yourself? If you can't, then why bet someone else's life on it, and why would you say it to them? It's presumptuous to assume that you know with 100% certainty that a negative event will happen, no matter how good an astrologer you are. K.N. Rao doesn't do that and he's one of the best astrologers alive. He doesn't scare people with negative predictions and cautions against this. It's the attitude of benefiting others with astrology that's important, if you want astrology to benefit you personally/spiritually.
Here's a quote from K.N. Rao on this topic:
“It is the moral duty of a successful and conscientious astrologer not to turn his client into a fatalist. More often than not when an astrological prediction is fulfilled people begin to develop a blind faith in astrology. It is bad both for the growth of astrology as a super science and for the astrologer himself who may be sapping someone's initiative through an over~emphasis on a prediction of his. All astrological predictions, fully successful, half successful or failed ones teach the astrologer the most important lesson: it is only God's law that prevails.” ~ K.N. Rao
Vaughn Paul
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rishirahul
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Re: Some Do's and Don't in Vedic Astrology
I think Vaughn ji's post is the most illuminative post on the qualifications of an astrologer!
An astrologer/guide should be seen as a help in aiding & guiding a native within the boundations of destiny.
'May be' & 'will be' should be used where direction & light can be imparted.
Great post!
RishiRahul
An astrologer/guide should be seen as a help in aiding & guiding a native within the boundations of destiny.
'May be' & 'will be' should be used where direction & light can be imparted.
Great post!
RishiRahul
Astrologer, Palmist and Numerologist
For Serious Astrological Consultations, Accurate Time Predictions and Decisions
For Serious Astrological Consultations, Accurate Time Predictions and Decisions
Re: Some Do's and Don't in Vedic Astrology
Yes, I agree with you Vaughn. It is only when a person is 100% sure that he can give a negative reading.
I dont know how many are such great expert astrologers here to have absolutely no error in their readings to give an emphatic negative remarks or so.
Dev
I dont know how many are such great expert astrologers here to have absolutely no error in their readings to give an emphatic negative remarks or so.
Dev
Re: Some Do's and Don't in Vedic Astrology
Vaughn ji,Vaughn Paul wrote:If you convey that a negative event will definitely happen, are you willing to bet your life on it? Is that really being honest, or are you fooling yourself? If you can't, then why bet someone else's life on it, and why would you say it to them? It's presumptuous to assume that you know with 100% certainty that a negative event will happen, no matter how good an astrologer you are. K.N. Rao doesn't do that and he's one of the best astrologers alive.
That is precisely the point I made. An astrologer should never be dead sure that his prediction will be correct, whether it is a positive one or a negative one. But that humble attitude is rarely found among astrologers. They just keep this 'I-know-it-all' attitude, and even if they show a false modesty by saying something may happen, their attitude gives a different impression to the consulter. So a person should believe in his heart first that it's foolish to be confident about a prediction, how skilled he maybe is, and then he should say that something may happen than something will happen.
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
Re: Some Do's and Don't in Vedic Astrology
"Still, there's God's grace that may intercede, which the astrologer may not see, but that is easily seen by an omniscient yogi or highly intuitive individual." -- From the article.
Does this mean that even God's grace is predestined?
Does this mean that even God's grace is predestined?
"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda
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krishnagopal1968
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Re: Some Do's and Don't in Vedic Astrology
Wow, Vaughn ji, cant agree more and your reply is precise.
I have seen many of Shri KN Rao's predictions and he uses "Chances are ..." or "times are favourable" like that.
And for negatives, he says 'be careful about health" or for mixed times he says " good for career but bad for health" etc.
But this way as per KNR ji or as you have suggested are not practised by most of the forum members. I think Yellow and Dev might have come across some members who are giving emphatic predictions like " your birth chart is ordinary, all planets are combust etc.. or i have rectified your BT, yours is so so lagna and use this for all purposes etc....
Hope all will tune into what you have suggested.
I have seen many of Shri KN Rao's predictions and he uses "Chances are ..." or "times are favourable" like that.
And for negatives, he says 'be careful about health" or for mixed times he says " good for career but bad for health" etc.
But this way as per KNR ji or as you have suggested are not practised by most of the forum members. I think Yellow and Dev might have come across some members who are giving emphatic predictions like " your birth chart is ordinary, all planets are combust etc.. or i have rectified your BT, yours is so so lagna and use this for all purposes etc....
Hope all will tune into what you have suggested.
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birthtimes
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Re: Some Do's and Don't's in Vedic Astrology
"It's not like astrologers shouldn't talk about negative or dangerous possibilities. The point is to do so in an empowering way..."
Beautifully said, AMEN!!!!!
Beautifully said, AMEN!!!!!
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rosebud0810
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Re: Some Do's and Don't's in Vedic Astrology
An astrology reading should leave the client feeling uplifted and looking forward to the future. Granted the bad events should also be communicated but this can be done in a tactful way so that the client is not distraught by the bad news.
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Vaughn Paul
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Re: Some Do's and Don't's in Vedic Astrology
I fully agree Rosebud. I would add that not only can so-called "bad" events be communicated in a tactful way, but in a helpful way that gives them tools to work with the challenges and explains the psychological underpinnings/karmic influences. Vaughn Paul
Re: Some Do's and Don't's in Vedic Astrology
This is all ok. Here i refer a case.The analysis/predictions given in JOA news letter 2-10-07/7-16PM about Benazir was very very positive but she was killed was the reality.Had benazir chanced upon these
analysis she would 've boldly not asked for any security at all because it was predicted there that she had
bright chances of returning to power. The time zone chosen of her chart seems to be wrong.Her lagna as per international astronomical data time zone for the same TOB is vrischika,not Thula &even Shri KN Raoji analysed based on Thula only.Vrischika answers her fathers hanging/only surviving child/denial of wedding in sat.dasa(late union at the age of 35 years)while Thula favored union in sat.dasa&lastly her assassination when sat/sun/Mars in 10/7/4 not posited as demanded by tradition &Thula lagna cannot explain this.
analysis she would 've boldly not asked for any security at all because it was predicted there that she had
bright chances of returning to power. The time zone chosen of her chart seems to be wrong.Her lagna as per international astronomical data time zone for the same TOB is vrischika,not Thula &even Shri KN Raoji analysed based on Thula only.Vrischika answers her fathers hanging/only surviving child/denial of wedding in sat.dasa(late union at the age of 35 years)while Thula favored union in sat.dasa&lastly her assassination when sat/sun/Mars in 10/7/4 not posited as demanded by tradition &Thula lagna cannot explain this.
Re: Some Do's and Don't's in Vedic Astrology
Hi,
This is a very nice note on Do's and Don'ts which which all of us - students, professionals, enthusiasts, etc. need to keep in mind.
I totally agree with the categorization of astrologers based on gunas. This applies not only to astrologers but to everyone. Those with sattva guna serve others, those with rajo guna want to impress others and those with tamo guna want to deceive others. In reality however, people have a mix of these 3 gunas.
Regards,
KMD
This is a very nice note on Do's and Don'ts which which all of us - students, professionals, enthusiasts, etc. need to keep in mind.
I totally agree with the categorization of astrologers based on gunas. This applies not only to astrologers but to everyone. Those with sattva guna serve others, those with rajo guna want to impress others and those with tamo guna want to deceive others. In reality however, people have a mix of these 3 gunas.
Regards,
KMD