My View's on Free will and Destiny.

For discussion on any other astrology topics like birth rectification, prashna, muhurta, mundane astrology, etc.
Forum rules
READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
Post Reply
basab14
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:2396
Joined:19 Jun 2012
Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by basab14 » 13 Oct 2012

if fate not freewill was the mainstay for a person then why allotting some house for freewill in a chart and vice versa.
Diksha,

That is my very point: if there is a house showing efforts (not free will) in a chart, then it means that the efforts we put in our life are also controlled by the planets. If the house of efforts is weak in a chart, the person will put less effort, if it is strong, the person will put more effort, so those who are screaming about free will have been destined to believe that way that there is free will, nothing else.

Don't take me wrongly, I am not trying to make you change your belief. Just shared my thoughts on the matter.


"Go thou and follow Him, who was born and gave His life for others five hundred times before He attained the vision of the Buddha!" -- Swami Vivekananda

Dev
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:3841
Joined:17 May 2010

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by Dev » 13 Oct 2012

If you dont believe in free will at all and if things are going very badly for you mostly, you become too pessimistic and may feel, ok that is all, we have nothing in life, let it end on its own, I have no other choice and no control over it. It becomes totally negative thinking and can harm one immensely.

If you dont believe in free will and if things are going very well, then you may think destiny is in your favour and become too arrogant and think that you are almost controller of destiny. That is over confidence and dangerous

If you dont believe in free will and if things are going very well most of the times and all of a sudden you face a calamity, you will not be able to come out of the shock ever

So it is always good to know that free will also plays a role in ones life and act accordingly doing pariharas and so on.
Death is the one which is not preventable by scientists but they have been able to invent cloning,test tube baby, gene splicing, open heart surgery, brain surgery and so on and even saving the life of a brain dead person and so on. If maha mrityunjaya chanting can even postpone death, then that shows that pariharas have a role to play because death alone is not at all in control of humans, however hard they try, they cannot conquer death

deeps

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by deeps » 13 Oct 2012

Written like a true Martian. :)

Dev
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:3841
Joined:17 May 2010

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by Dev » 14 Oct 2012

Thanks Aseem

numbskull
Contributor
Contributor
Posts:70
Joined:28 May 2011

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by numbskull » 14 Oct 2012

neighter lord Ram nor kKrishna ji left anytrhing for fate they worked hard and strugled , it was his freewill to take evermighty ravan with help of monkeys and bears and look he suceeded.

once we r in this world god want us to act and be responsible for r deeds.

do u think acts of kansha were due to his destiny and lord krishna should have pardoned him becoz he himself was the writer of kansa's destiny so it was his (krishna's ) fault for all the wrong deeds kansa did ? and then why should kansa or ravan were punished if they acted according to their destineys and the creater of those destines was the lord himself so in that way if anyone should have been punished that should have been the lord himself.

what i think is that once we r in this world we r our own, he gives us our initial talents, strengths and weakness and our family and let the things go on of their own from there on he only intervenes when someone calls him whole heartedly and desperately (i seriously doubt that too) good and bad times come as per grah dasas and everyone has to face them as per one owns endurance so some emerge unshattered while others r left shaken and distraught.
its all in us how much we can endure can we take failure with dignity n humbility and success without losing our head and without becoming arrogant and proudy?

Sudarshang

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by Sudarshang » 15 Oct 2012

Summary of my views.

1. Everone is responsible for his/her actions. That is why Karma is attributed to the I ndividual Jeevatma. If everything were predestined by the Lord, the karma resulting from individual actions would have been attributed to Him, not us.

2. The outcome of our actions are based on the variables of Prakriti Mandala. An inalienable characteristic of prakriti is Unpredictability.

3. As a result of this uncertainty the outcome makes the individual happy/unhappy. When one is happy he/she is spending a part of his//her punya karma from his/her prarabdha karma bank (not Sanchita bank). Similarly when he/she is unhappy with the outcome he/she is spending a part of papa karma. This is contrary to the common belief that one's punya/papa influences the outcome. This belief is incorrect.

4. People commonly suffer three types of unhappiness called TAPA-TRAYAM, they are aadhyaatmika, aadhibhautika, and aadidaivika based on the cause of the unhappiness.

5. Astrology is a probabilistic science based on parameters that are natural and helps us bring some sense of predictabiity into the unpredictability of prakriti.

6. Prakriti is the Lord's agent. Propitiating the divine forces can help us therefore to alter the outcome to a reasonable extent. But each individual has to endure the happiness or suffering in order to spend the karmic balance before one can get moksha from samsaric cycles of repeated birth.

7. Balance of karma determines the type of birth and life span for that birth ONLY and not whether we suffer or are happy.

8. Path of surrender means surrendering the free will to the Lord, saying, Lord I do not know how use this faculty intelligently. Please run my life as per yiur wish such that you can grant me moksha at the end of this life. You are my everything including my only wealth. I have realized that moksha is the final goal and know I caanot go there through my own effort using this free will you have given me.

Sudarshang

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by Sudarshang » 15 Oct 2012

Continuing,

One must use his /her freewill in order to suurender that freewill at the Lord's holy feet. That surrender is not predestined.

Next question, who to surrender to? None other than the one who gave the commandment to us in the eighteenth chapter (Sarva dharmaan parityajya......)...that Geetacharyan's feet are the only ones that are worthy of that honor.

Dev
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:3841
Joined:17 May 2010

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by Dev » 15 Oct 2012

As a result of this uncertainty the outcome makes the individual happy/unhappy. When one is happy he/she is spending a part of his//her punya karma from his/her prarabdha karma bank (not Sanchita bank). Similarly when he/she is unhappy with the outcome he/she is spending a part of papa karma. This is contrary to the common belief that one's punya/papa influences the outcome. This belief is incorrect.

Sudarshan:

This is not clear to me, prarabhda is what is destined in this birth, sanchita is the whole lot of accumulated papa and punya for the whole lot of births that the person may take in future if the soul does not attain moksha.
What does that last sentence mean?
You mean, for already existing balance of papa and punya, the prarabhda is the already destined fate of this birth and we cannot do extra papa or punya other than that? It is not clear, can you explain?

Dev

Sudarshang

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by Sudarshang » 16 Oct 2012

Dev

Prarabdha and sanchita work like bank balance. Punya is like cash balance and papa is like debt. When one is unhappy the debt is reducing. When one is happy the cash balance is reducing.

Prarabdha is a subset of sanchita that the jeevatma will spend during it short lifespan on earth. Prarabdha is like about a cupful while sanchita is like an ocean.

Each act based on free will results in additional punya or papa. While we have all taken birth to spend off our karma, it is an irony that we end up accumulating additional balance istead of spending tge lot we are born with. First lesson one has to learn is how to spend without accumulating.

Dev
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:3841
Joined:17 May 2010

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by Dev » 16 Oct 2012

Sudarshan:

I know almost all that you said, what I was wondering was if prarabhda which is already destined for this janma
takes into account the sins and punya karmas that we do now in this janma or these just add to sanchita karmas to be experienced in future.

Dev

Sudarshang

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by Sudarshang » 17 Oct 2012

You are born with the expectation that you will expend the karma you are born with and not find ways to accumulate more

deeps

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by deeps » 17 Oct 2012

It is ectremely difficult to differentiate between what is prarabdh and sanchita karma. These are all theoretical concepts.

Sudarshang

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by Sudarshang » 17 Oct 2012

To the one who does not want to make the effort to understand the differences, sure you are right Aseem. However the differences are stark and clear to the one that wants to try to understand. In the present life one is born to expend one's prarabdha. Sancita remains untouched for future births. Some of agaami karma that which is newly acquired in this birth will be cancelled in present birth,but the vast majority of it becomes part of sanchita at the end of this life. Conditions for cancellation of karma newly acquired in this life includes prayaschiitam and heart felt prayer to the Lord apologizing for an action, after the fact.

deeps

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by deeps » 17 Oct 2012

Sudarshanji

How much you are sure of what you have written?

Sudarshang

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by Sudarshang » 17 Oct 2012

deeps wrote:Sudarshanji

How much you are sure of what you have written?
Aseem, I am surer than how sure you are in asking this question. But I am not sure whether this thread and forum has the tolerance for another long philosophical discussion here. I have stated "my views on this topic." Agree or disagree or agree to disagree but move on. Your question is not leading to a fruitful discussion on the topic.

ROFL
Registered User
Registered User
Posts:20
Joined:26 Sep 2012

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by ROFL » 14 Nov 2012

I read many comments on this topic and thought of putting up something I have realised about free will, destiny and its association with astrology.

Destiny in a man's life is the "situation" and "circumstances" that he falls into in his lifetime. He can't dictate everything around him. Those are all the results of his past karmas of life and can easily be read through a man's horoscope(if an astrologer is capable enough).

The way he reacts in those situations is his freewill and forms his karmas, which further decides his destiny. Now, how strong a man is to deal with a situation can also be dealt by the chart. His overall personality, his psychology, attitude towards life can all be predicted through his chart.

But this needs to be understood that astrology can't predict the "exact" situation and circumstance for any outcome. Also, it can't predict the "exact" way a man shall behave in that particular point. That's why I always believe that astrology is a science but prediction in itself is an art.

The best of astrologers can make his calculations in a chart and determine the "possible" situations in the best of his way, but what shall be the "highest probability" of the final outcome needs to be analysed, keeping in mind the traits of the native, which are revealed through the chart. And, for this, an astrologer needs that "extra touch", which can be called intution or instinct or maybe experience.

I was reading one of the predictions by Shri K N Rao. He predicted, not publicly, that Indira Gandhi's life is in danger during the period of October/November 1984, and that she can die. When asked on the exact date, he said anytime between 1-4 November, and she died on 31st October 1984.

He predicted the circumstances, which she must be destined to. But had she known about it, could it have been possible for her to change the outcome, or in simpler terms, use her freewill, to change her destiny?

The answer is Yes. She could have delayed it if not cancel it, but only if the prediction would have been more accurate. If Raoji would have said that his bodyguard himself will kill her, she might have changed the bodyguard and saved her life. Or maybe she would have send all of them on a break. But, as I said, this is not in the remit of astrologer, he has his limitations, else he would have replaced God himself.

So the simple thing is, the first and the last person who can change our destiny is the native himself, keeping in mind his strength and weaknesses. For that matter, he can seek guidance from an astrologer, but should always believe in himself. If the "situation" is favourable for the native, his task gets easier, and if it is "unfavourable", he may have to work harder to achieve it. But also, if an astrologer is reliable, and he guides you about a "situation" getting worse on taking a particular path, than we should avoid it. But than again it comes down to your "freewill", how wise you are to make out that whether he is right or wrong !!!

I have tried to make myself quite clear with this, but also I shall invite any counter question and beliefs on this

Thanks.

User avatar
Shivoham
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts:261
Joined:27 Nov 2017
Location:Jaipur, Rajasthan

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by Shivoham » 10 Jan 2021

I agree with Basab on Destiny. It's duly predetermined. Life is like a movie if you watch it with detachment. Do what you will. Astroboy is over analyzing with his ego & isn't willing to surrender to the truth. Free will exists together with the individuality. As long as the individuality lasts, so long is there free will. All the scriptures are based on this fact and advise directing the free will in the right channel.

Find out who it is who has free will or predestination and abide in that state. Then both are transcended. That is the only purpose in discussing these questions.

To whom do such questions present themselves? Discover that and be at peace.

There's only infinite present. No past, no future. Everything is predetermined. It is because there is nobody to determine it because there is no "you" in the equation. So everything must already be determined by god, god predetermined himself, including you coping with the fact that everything is predetermined.

"You" still have an impact on the world. If "you" decides to stop enlightenment work and decides that nothing matters anyways, youre still gonna have a miserable existence as a consequence of your actions. Nothing predetermined there. As long there is "someone" that has to cope with something there is still "one" that has impact in the world.

The only problem is, you are not this entity. You dont exist, so you have no impact on the world. The world just runs by itself

does a character in a story have any choice about what his next action will be? or is it dictated by the author of the story who is outside of the story-world?

reality is the same. there are seemingly real characters making choices here and there... but when it is seen and understood that the characters are being played by actors... then it is seen that there was never any free will and all happened as it was destined to.

From the absolute perspective, nothing is actually happening. there is no choice even being made. we only have the illusion of choice, and therefore you will always have choice, but nothing is predetermined,

if you count yourself as one with the absolute - there is no perspective in which you can take that you individually own

if you count yourself as a seperate individual from the absolute - then you have the perspective that you have choice, both are true in the end.

when people start to believe things are predetermined, they think that everything is spritual and is working its way towards some great mission in life which is another illusion,

forever for eternity, nothing is actually happening besides "awareness being aware".
I am without any form & variation. I am present everywhere as the underlying substratum of everything & always in equilibrium Neither do I get attached to anything, nor get freed from anything. I am Ever Pure Blissful Consciousness Soham Shivoham

abhishek
Contributor
Contributor
Posts:139
Joined:24 Aug 2011

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by abhishek » 19 Jan 2021

This is taken from the book of great Indian sage Shri Ramesh Balsekar.

You have "free will" but it is totally worthless in practice...you cannot do anything with it, although you feel like you can.

If everything is predestined, what should I do?

Because you are not the doer, there is nothing you can do, so continue doing everything has to be done, with the deepest convinction that it is all God's behaviour.
If one accepts that whatsoever is happening is as per God's will or Cosmic law then there will not be any complaint or frustration with life. But this acceptance will also come to us as per God's will. - Ramesh Balsekar

KMD
Contributor
Contributor
Posts:223
Joined:25 Jan 2021

Re: My View's on Free will and Destiny.

Post by KMD » 25 Mar 2021

Hi,

On one hand, our present fate is a result of our past actions. We have to face the consequences of our past actions. This is our fate or destiny.

On the other hand, what we do now will determine our future destiny. We have the choice whether to be honest or to lie. We have a choice whether to care for or be indifferent to others or harm others. This is our free will.

Regards,
KMD
"The planets are always favorable to one who does not harm others, who possesses composure, who earns wealth through honest means and who restrains the baser instincts."

Post Reply