Freewill or Destiny

[Basab]

so what i meant was that i have not yet come to that stage where i beleive in that power 24*365* no of years that i wud live.....i yo yo between belief and non belief and that is why i undertsnad intellectually and can maybe discuss on them, my heart sometimes refuses......and till the day my heart and mind believes, i wud have problem.....

Meme,

I am sorry I am interfering in this discussion. You have said that you will have a problem till your heart and mind believes in rebirth and the law of karma and God. Take my example. I blindly believe in them all (rebirth, law of karma, God) and everything that the scriptures say. I believe them with my mind and heart and soul. But even then, I still find it difficult to accept problems, sufferings. Just believing in those things I don't think helps in accepting sufferings. It's when you make them your life, it's when you walk the path of spirituality, is when you learn to stay in a neutral frame of mind, in all situations, whether suffering or joy, success or failure, etc.

[astroboy]

the problem with us, is that we don't stop to smell the flower's and the Roses on the way..........


we come here to Vaughn Paul's website and dont pause to think what he has to say about the issue.

here is what he think's about free will,

With increased conscious awareness the unconscious, reactive behaviors that malefic planets represent can be corrected. It's the best use of our free will in my opinion.

[astroboy]

Answer my question, If not for the Upachaya houses, where would have we been today ??? see what we did in the past 200 year's. Our mistake lies in the fact that we asked "Dharma" to take a walk and did what we wanted to do as per our wish. This is why the 3rd the 6th and the 11th were termed as "Bad houses" As per our scriptures. The 3rd is also a Dusthana. A mild one, but still a Dusthana.

[Basab]

Then what's the point of taking birth, Astroboy, if from the very first birth we take, salvation becomes our goal? Why did God gives us the 5 senses? To torture us? To want us to desire material things and trap us in the cycle of birth if we desired them? Is that what His motive was? Is He a sadist? But don't get into this impression that I am pointing my finger at Him--accusing Him in anyway. I will never do that. I don't want to point an accusing finger at someone (Him), whom I don't know, whom I don't understand. I don't think I have the brains to understand God and His leela.

[astroboy]

Ah Basab ji, what would I do with out you here ????????. Look we are not equipped to question the man who created this mess. @#$% him, I say he is a egoistic S.O.B. let him kill me now . can he ?????? no he can't why ? ... because in a way, I am moulding my own Destiny. Look at us Basab. Look at us, As a Country. Here we are, on the verge of a historical verdict about which god own's 65 acres, when we all know in our hearts that the entire universe belong's to him. Does he talk ? no he wont. Let each one sculpt their own life, because we are after all a Microcosm of god. Is God egoistic, Yes he is, Is he perfect ????/ No he is not. If i asked him to $%#@ off would he kill me ???? No he wont. Once we are done experiencing what we want to experience, once we grow tired, we will seek him. We will still need the Upachaya houses though..... because its all about "self Development". the time will come when each and every one will come to the conclusion that this is nothing, we have bigger fish to fry.

I am angry that god is a egoistic megalomaniac who plays games. But I dont question my Boss. I might be angry with him. But I still love him.

[Basab]

Thanks for your reply, Astroboy. I think God does have a control here: You tried to absue Him, but every word of abuse you wrote got automatically converted to, '@#$%'. So you see how powerful God is. Anyway, jokes apart, I don't abuse God, and I don't question Him because I think it is wrong to abuse or accuse someone whom I don't know at all. That's my way of looking at it.

[astroboy]

Basab ji, watch a Movie called Devil's advocate,

I am posting the last 2 punch lines of the Movie,

It's time to step up and take what's yours.
You're right. It's time. Free will, right?
[Chuckles, then shoots himself in the head]

enjoy,

and because I love you so much ,,,,,,,, I will examine you upachaya houses tomorrow.

[astroboy]

Basab Ji, I am aware of Filters. I always use @#$% or what ever Combination i can find. I actually type them ....... Its up to you how you interpret them ..... For me a four letter word might be GOOD. You said I abused him. That's your Interpretation.

[astroboy]

Ok God Now i shall tuck my tail in between my 2 long legs, Bow down to your might and ramble home. I am scared of God suddenly. lest I be banished from his kingdom. Relax my dear friend .......... I already said ,



I am angry that god is a egoistic megalomaniac who plays games. But I dont question my Boss. I might be angry with him. But I still love him.

[Basab]

Thanks Astroboy for suggesting the movie, I will watch it if it comes up on any of the movie channels. Thanks for sharing the last couple of lines from the movie. And really looking forward to your analysis of my upachaya houses. Thanks in advance.

Basab ji, watch a Movie called Devil's advocate,

I am posting the last 2 punch lines of the Movie,

It's time to step up and take what's yours.
You're right. It's time. Free will, right?
[Chuckles, then shoots himself in the head]

enjoy,

and because I love you so much ,,,,,,,, I will examine you upachaya houses tomorrow.

[Basab]

Hey Astroboy, I deleted that post, so that's enough hint that 'God' is not trying to be a dictator here...

Ok God Now i shall tuck my tail in between my 2 long legs, Bow down to your might and ramble home. I am scared of God suddenly. lest I be banished from his kingdom. Relax my dear friend .......... I already said ,



I am angry that god is a egoistic megalomaniac who plays games. But I dont question my Boss. I might be angry with him. But I still love him.

[astroboy]

Basab ji, Just look at what kind of games God play's. The streets are empty, I am alone in my office , Sine curve has gone roaming, God know's where. We are a Nation threatened by God himself. I say, Make this disputed land a Forest, let all beings which this god has created enjoy his bounty. We are making a mockery of him. I have to leave now, I hope and pray we have better sense, and Goodness will prevail. Take care Basab Ji. I hope i can come and post tomorrow. ( No net at home )

[astroboy]

[Basab]

Don't worry, Astroboy. It's okay. You can post your analysis of my chart whenever you feel.

I hope i can come and post tomorrow. ( No net at home )

[Nitin21]

. If everything is written in puranas, where is the question of free-will?

This brings back to my first post where i have explained why the free will is there. And I put logical part to it. That, there is a limited about of free will and a limited set of predefined actions as per previous karmas. If there was no free-will, how will the next birth karma be decided and how will the soul advance its journey to Moksha which is the ultimate end result of the journey of the soul.

.

If kaliyuga is God’s wish, then as per law of karma, at least 50% of the consequences (good or bad) of Kaliyuga have
to be shared by God Himself.

Maheshji - You and me are too insignificant entities to use such a statement. While we are composed of three gunas, the almighty is APRAKRUT. i.e. Shri Vishnu existed even before this creation. This means that the three gunas came into picture while and after the creation. So, then what is God composed of ? He is beyond the three Gunas which is why he is called Aprakrut. If he is aprakrut then how can he be affected by any durgunas like emotion of being hurt or elated by Law of Karma. This is a sinful approach to consider the almighty and us on the same plane and is akin to Brahma Hatya. Because the Lord is the ultimate Brahaman. And by disrespecting him, we incur dosha.

. If not hidden plan, for example, why Ramayana had so many twists and thrills like abductions etc.?
Like Narasimha, Sri Rama could have directly gone and hit Ravan in a single shot.

This has been discussed n number of times on the forum. Most of us fail to see that these stories were not mere restoration of power. God does not need to take birth to prove that he is powerful. The entire vedas and upanishads sing his glory in the highest respect. When Lord takes birth(again just a human concept because Lord does not take birth or die) on the respective Loka, he acts as per the laws of the loka and yuga, when it is a long sampoorna avatara. Shri Ram and Shri Krishna could have finished the story in a jiffy by killing Ravana and Duryodhana respectively. But the philosophy is to bring out the fact that Dharma always wins because the Lord is on its side.And that Karma is essential to extol the journey of the soul.

Shri Hanuman was perfectly capable of destroying Lanka on its own. Any reason why he did not destroy and left it to Shri Ram ? .. Shri Hanuman is the next Brahma of this creation. He is aparoksha Gyani meaning they can see lord everywhere and he can read the mind of God, without God needing to instruct him what to do all the time.

We must always think with a broader spectrum while analyzing the epics. These are preachings and narrations of Lord himself in the form of Shri Ved Vyasa. There is always a meaning attached to every event and incident, that we must analyze deeply before reaching to earthy conclusions.

Best Regards
Sonu

[R V RAMANAN]

dear Meme

Take your own time and try to start feeling instead of rationalising everything.

Water is supposed to quench thirst. And if it doesnt any amount of thesis on water will never.

Dear astroboy

Nice to see you after a long time.

Dear Astro sonu, Basab & Anupamji

All your posts had amazing clarity in its own way.

Regards
ramanan

[R V RAMANAN]

dear narayanan

That was a good post but I will tell you why I answered it

It is simply to know my limitations. Unless one manifests he/she will never know what is wrong in them.

Supposing we have a debate and you prove me wrong then it is beneficial for both of us. Firstly, I get benefited because I am corrected and secondly your understanding gets affirmed.

Regards
ramanan

[Basab]

Basab Ji, I am aware of Filters. I always use @#$% or what ever Combination i can find. I actually type them ....... Its up to you how you interpret them ..... For me a four letter word might be GOOD. You said I abused him. That's your Interpretation.

Astroboy,

I am sorry I am writing this post, but I don't like it when someone thinks me foolish because otherwise you would not have written this line: "You said I abused him. That's your interpretation." Astroboy, you may make me believe that I made a wrong interpretation, but don't think that you can make God believe what you want Him to believe. He knows everything. Nothing is, or can be, hidden from Him. And abusing God is also a bad karma if you have done that. Now, why I said what I said about my thinking that you abused God:

One never feels shy or guilty to use a good word--doesn't feel the need to hide it with '@#$%', but then, without proof I cannot say you were lying. Now quoting some lines from your post and trying to understand them with my 'dull head':

Look we are not equipped to question the man who created this mess. @#$% him, I say he is a egoistic S.O.B. let him kill me now .

You have written 'S.O.B' in your post. What is the full form of that? Well, anyone can answer that. But still, let me think that it can be anything, but then, I really wonder whether it is something good because I really don't think you would have thought even once of God killing you if you had hidden some nice words of appreciation there, and now, when you said "@#$% him" I don't think those symbols were hiding the word 'love' because if you had written "love him", you wouldn't have thought even once of God killing you.

If i asked him to $%#@ off would he kill me ????

I have been scratching my head all evening thinking of a four letter word which could replace the "$%#@" of "$%#@ off" except the one which I guessed and which was an abuse. And then, I wondered again how it could be a good word when you asked this question whether God will kill you. Why would that thought of God killing you ever come to your mind if you were not abusing Him, my friend?

[Basab]

Thanks, Ramanan. I never ever thought that my posts in the spirituality section would ever be appreciated. It made my day! Thanks once again.

Dear Astro sonu, Basab & Anupamji

All your posts had amazing clarity in its own way.

[R V RAMANAN]

Dear basab

I never ever thought that my posts in the spirituality section would ever be appreciated. It made my day! Thanks once again.

why do u feel so. I really felt that what ever you wrote made a lot of sense.


Regards
ramanan

[Basab]

Thanks Ramanan. I have been criticized in this section a lot of times and most people don't agree with what I have written here, so it was a welcome change, a happy surprise, to see someone appreciate my thoughts.

[R V RAMANAN]

Respected Anupamji

I fully understand and accept that knowledge is only an impediment. I was fortunate to be picked up by a master awhen I was very young and you may be surprised that I have not read any one single book fully in my lifetime. (Not even a novel.)

Most of the times I am empty and some urge comes and a flash (which I really find it difficult to cognise into a thought form) and it is the urge which makes me express and I do manage to express a 5% of the flash I get.

Sometimes when a question is asked to me I keep simply staring at people for it never enters me.

I do simply agree with the fact that

Nothing is right
no action wrong
for all that is
is nothing but air

I do see
a mother in you
from the compassion you express
in the garb of words

With warm regards
ramanan

[Narayan]

Ramanan ji:

"It is simply to know my limitations. Unless one manifests he/she will never know what is wrong in them."

Limitations???? and that to you O' Master, the master of infinitness? I do know you as a real Ramana, which glows all over like thousand suns shining. O' master embrace me fully as of yours into ur world of ever glowness, be this ant a food of yours.

Ramana Maharishi says in Akshara Ramana Malai "Lakshyam Vaithu Arul Asthiram Vitta pol, Bhakshithayai Prananodu Arunachala"

Hey Arunachala, the very form of merciness, "like a hunter who has sent an arrow from his bow to the point, the same way you have eaten me wholly"

Further "Sappadu Ennai Saranthu Unavai En Santhama Po en arunchala" Sappadu-food. "I have been your food o lord, u have embraced me as ur food and u taste me a lot, and you have been extremely calm after swallowing me."

Ramananji, yes, you are very fortunate that you got a great Guru that you came out of darkness and your desire to part the same for others is simply great. But, this ant has not got anyone yet.

Regards

Narayanan

[krishnagopal1968]

Dear Meme,

I think your actual question is different.

You said you are from traditional family but were free to make your choices. And after making it you are scary!

So what does it indicate?

Instead of bringing the much used words like fate etc, see it practically. It seems the choice you made had a consequence which you don't like or don't want!

But what you forgot is that motivation behind this choice. Was it freedom? or happiness or else? It might have happened initially with that choice, i think. or atleast partially.

otherwise why you chose that in the very first place? But it has its own share of problems which you may have experienced and hence don't want it.

Now can you please think on these lines?

First of all why do we ask questions?

second from whom do we expect answers?

Yes, everyone who answered it is right but it is their answer and it may not satisfy you.

I think you may forget this question in due course because it is raised in free time and not in actual life circumstances. or if you are fortunate some circumstance may happen which may force you to find the right answer you are searching for!

[astroboy]

My dear basab ji,

you spent hours trying to figure out what @#$% would mean, and in the mean time you lost the essence of my post.

Basab ji, I am 37 years old. I have put my ears to the ground for the past 30 years hearing every little rattle, trying to make sense of what this cycle of life is all about. In Kuja dasha my anger toward's god made me hate him. In Rahu Dasha I ignored him completely and came to the conclusion that he is impotent and can do nothing. In Guru dasha I re examined his method's and came to the conclusion that the " Law of Karma" is the only logical explaination for the happenings in this world.

I have every right to be angry with him Basab ji. I have seen misery at close quarter's. I have cried in helplessness, Not for me, But for other being's. I have felt their pain, I have watched being's die in misery. I have every right to be angry with him.

I was up jogging this morning when i saw a newly errected massive hoarding. The hording said that this years Dasara celebrations will be hosted by a organisation called " Jai hind friend's". The are only 4 committee members, all of them noted criminals. they are into everything, right from murder, smuggling, robbery, extortion, and off course running dance bars and prostitution rings. these "Honorable members" get to visit the temple every day for those 9 days and will be given a special darshan. A gang which runs a prostitution ring gets to be near a godess. What should I call god now ? Is society not making a mockery of him? What message is he sending to people ??? That he is ready to be entertained by thug's ???

My Guru called me a few days back at 12.30 in the morning. I was shocked to see his call, I asked him what happened. He said, did you watch the news??? I watched it at 19.00 last evening and I cannot sleep. Do you know who they made the "Muzrai minister" ( Minister in charge of all the temples in the state) ? what do you think ??? I was speechless, I said, sir " God is shameless" he said, "You are correct, there is no hope for us". This is God for you. what can I say ???

If he can let people assault women in the name of Hindu Dhrama with a banner like " Shri Rama Sene", indulge in acts of moral policing, Kill people in his name, bomb a few and maime them for life, reserve 72 virgin's for a terrorist, conduct a inquisition and kill thousand's in the process. Surely he is going to ignore my $%^&&.

Am I scared of him ??? Off course I am not. Why ??? If he entertains people who loot society, kill people, and loot him in return........ what can he do to me ??? I think he has a bigger wheel to grind. Basab ji, I am not scared of him in the least. Some times I am angry with him, Some times I hate him, Some time I laugh at him, Some times I cry for him, Sometimes I share a joke with him, But the last thing I will do is get scared of him. I know he is there and he is watching all this drama. I dont know if he will react at all. I just wish he will. I dont know why, No matter how angry I get, I still love him some where deep down. I dont know why, But I do.