Cinema and the manifestation of thought

[Nitin21]

[quote="anupam1968"][quote]These were siddhis of the people which made things fly[/quote]

As soon as we use this world Siddhis we just at that moment comes out of today's scientific world because these words make us stand aloof in the corner. We can also come from the other way round to prove that everything is scientific even siddhis if we think about it all with scientific frame of mind rather proclaiming them as miracles that cannot be proved or explained for the layman that also in crude scientific terms.
[/quote]

Anupamji,

I believe in our scriptures more than any science. Our sages knew thousands of years back the planets. Science came to know after that. Science operates within the human mind capacity i.e. 6-7% and max 11-12% as science itself claims. What is it going to unfold with this limited capacity, which is not in our scriptures ? Our sages operated with fullest capacity of their mind due to their tapas and control of five senses. I am perfectly ok if we are left aloof in this scientific world because of our beliefs in our history. What i speak about scriptures is not just my word against others. The pramanas are all there in scriptures. People have to be guided to the right place and of course with the will to learn it. I have only begun in this journey, but my beliefs and the will to move forward is strong.

The fact is that Sage Bhrigu wrote the lineage of mortal thousands of years ago which are still being true today. How did he know at that time who is going to be born in which family in a particular century or era ? Science was only a fraction of part of our scriptures, which science claims today as a WHOLE. And we laymen because we operate within our 6-7% of capacity of mind, believe in it as the ultimate.

Our sages wrote the scriptures and our Gods and deities enacted Mahabharata and Ramayana for the world to understand the importance of Karma and Religion. During Satyug and Dwapar yuga people used to remember their past lives also. It was only after Gautam Rishi's curse to mankind, when Indradev disguised himself as Gautam to be with his wife, that humans started forgetting the past lives. However, it is still stored in some part of our mind. It needs activation as against memory by default in ancient times. There are incidents in this very scientific world where in people have naratted exactly the way incidents were in their past life and science went back and verified them. And this does not include only India but west too.

Talking about Vaak Siddhi, yes I agree part of it is science. But not the entire thing. Vak Siddhi is a yoga which when activated operates against the planetary configurations. There are levels of this yoga that differs from person to person and strength and placements of the planets in the chart. This energy is yet to be discovered in scientific terms. There are no formulas attached to it. And neither is it a philosophy. The intuitive part is supposed to know the events about to happen. And the speech part makes it happen. That is vak siddhi. This is far beyond the understanding of neurology or science.


My humble two cents

Regards
Sonu

[Basab]

[quote="p.mahesh"]You notice that, the way the world is run (by God or a principle): a soft and honest, good natured fellow will be associated with a rude, tempered fellow who harasses the earlier. Whether it is a husband/wife, a boss/employer or for that matter a tiger and goat/cow./quote]

Mahesh,

The reason for it is, it is Kali yoga now.

[Basab]

[quote="p.mahesh"]Yes, this is Kaliyuga. But who is responsible for this? Our scriptures predicted the features of Kaliyuga thousands of years ago, well before it started. Does it mean Kaliyuga is some one’s pre-planned creation?

If law of karma exits in every yuga, why it is implemented differently in Kaliyuga?[/quote]

Mahesh,

Kali yuga definitely is someone's pre-planned creation because if it was not so then how are the yuga's there in perfect order, coming one after another, just like the seasons.

Law of karma exists for individuals as well as for countires and states and also the world as a whole, just like there are birth charts for individuals and also for states and countries as well. So, the yugas are also coming under the law of karma. It is the result of the karma done by the world in general.

[Nitin21]

Anupamji,

I understand and appreciate your approach. But, as I said some things are beyond the reach of science and we would probably have to fabricate some of these facts to explain it as science. That's been my concern. The idea is not just to emphasise the end result. It is also essential that people understand our lineage and respect it for what it is.

Regards
Sonu



[quote="anupam1968"][quote]Vak Siddhi is a yoga which when activated operates against the planetary configurations[/quote]

Yes, I should say you are right in every of your observation but I have to change my way of expression by seeing the different mind sets that is why I said that we can also prove the things in crude scientific terms if anybody is hell bent upon defying everything behind the curtain of today's science.[/quote]

[Basab]

[quote="rajitha"]Basab, your repeated indications show that you are at the end of your struggles. So, hang in there and hope your business is doing good.[/quote]

Rajitha,

Thank you for the comforting words. I hope you are right. Yes, share trading is going okay. Thank you for asking about it.

[Nitin21]

Maheshji,

The newer cultures are not new totally. There is mention of countries like greece etc in Mahabharata. Ofcourse it was not called greece then. These countries were called mletchas i.e. foreign elements. It's just that our books or TV shows have shown the translated version that is of interest to general public where only God and deities are involved.

Mahabharata clearly states, that there is only one God i.e. Shri Krishna in the forms of Shri Vishnu or Shri Rama. These three are the same. Rest all are deities e.g. Shanidev, Indradev, Varundevta. It is like a king and ministers relationship. And God and the deities are the only immortal ones.

Rest all are mortals and cannot be worshipped above Gods and deities. Not that they are not good or not religious. But the stature is not comparable to Gods and deities. Mortals are not capable of bestowing divine blessings. They are the religious guides who guide the mankind to the ways to heaven and should not be worshipped but respected.

Regards
Sonu

[quote="p.mahesh"]Anupamji,

I know that our ancient people were much superior in technologies. It is a pity that every thing is lost. In all previous yugas, we are aware of only Hindu culture and their technologies. How come only in this era other cultures evolved? Of course it could be part of God’s kaliyuga creation. I wonder, is it that our ancient people, instead of taking birth in India, had taken birth in west and re-developed modern technology. Is this possible?

I have read some where that Sri Ramakrihna mentions He takes birth again in Europe. Also, some theories based on Bhavishya Purana say modern Islam has been established as per the order of Lord Shiva and there exists Shiv Ling at Mecca. Is Christ any way connected to incarnations of Hindu deities? Do not know how far these are true. How fare it is to assume so.

Though it is good if our ancient era (vedic culture) again re-surfaces, I am not sure in which form it will, keeping in view of multi-cultures existing in this yuga. Also, in what time frame it could happen? as such a massive transformations of re-uniting multi-cultures to a single one (vedic culture) will normally take ages and our lifetimes span in just decades.

Mahesh[/quote]

[sachinwadhwa]

Respected Anupam ji,

I thought about your posts and writings. Based which I have few questions / thoughts.

1.
“But first of all we must have some practical examples to show that like others, movies are also part of that universal intelligence.”

To compliment what you have said, I would like to share the example of a movie called “Khalnayak”. In this movie Sanjay Dutt was born in a good family, but underwent hell due to his wrong deeds. The same experiences were witnessed by Sanjay Dutt in real life.
But the challenge is that if we start relating movies to real life, where do we stop.

2.
“But see the irony. We are thinking that this particular thought has reached to its termination point in the ether but then just after 2 months a new movie released namely ‘Hello’ based on the novel of Chetan Bhagat ‘ A night in the call centre’. Here again God is talking through modern technology of today’s call centre. Remember he is not talking as we generally read in our scriptures. He is talking through phone like a human being to a human being. Again showing his appearance in the mortal world like a mortal man using all the technology of communication which is the hallmark of modern era.”

Does this mean that he will be a person working in ITES Industry, working in BPO / Call center? The reason could be that may be he wants to manifest according to the recent era instead of appearing in Godly form. That is why “Jai Santoshi Maa” was not a hit.

3.
“Now the important point to consider is we visited Hanuman temple on Sunday means yesterday that also when it was not our destination at all and for my amazement when I visited Mehandi pur Balaji temple of Hanuman just a month back it was also Sunday. Now can anybody call it mere fluke or just a mere coincidence?”

Anupam ji, I was surfing channels, where I saw an astrologer talking about importance of venus in this year as the 1st day of the year is Friday, last day of the year is Friday, grahans are coming on Friday and shiv ratris..etc are also coming on Friday. Do you think there is some significance around Venus / Friday in 2010?

4.
Is this the first Kalpa of the universe which will end? If not, then how did the complete divine form manifested in earlier kalpas?

5.
“For you all are suffering and he is observing everything but for me he has been suffering since eons and come to apply balm on his own body when he cant tolerate anymore pain.”

He is suffering due to his own deeds…I guess he has lots of patience if he has been tolerating the crap around the world which has been happening for so long. Honestly, by analyzing the current situation, I don’t think people can lead a safe / respectable life.
My concern is that why does he wait for the last moment. Why isn’t he proactive enough to fix the problem early. Why should I wait for a situation to reach to an extreme to fix it. Ripping a fruit is a good example for positive side. However, when it comes to pain or say fever, do we wait to reach @ 104 deg Celsius before taking medicine… the answer is No.

6.
“You know Ramakrishna Paramhansa said that God is communicating with you in each second he is you who does not hear him.”

Anupam ji, Communication is a 2 way process. Mr A talks to Mr B at a volume which Mr B can not listen, and then Mr A says that Mr B in incapable of hearing… do we say this to be good communication. More so when Mr A knows for sure that Mr B hasn’t heard. Do you think this is justified?

Regards

[sachinwadhwa]

Respected Anupam ji,

“Our eyes can only reach till four yugas but we do not how many kalpas have gone because there is no count at all. For others it is the first kaliyuga and for me it is one of the millions that have gone.”

People who remain at the end of kaliyuga get to see 2 kalpas then? Per our discussion, we will have next kalpa beginning very soon in next 2 years or early. So all of us would see the next kalpa.

Regards

[Nitin21]

Sachinji,

The world is not going to get destroyed in 2 years. It is only the end of Maya sabhyata Calendar. Not the end of the world. Neither the beginning of new yuga. This yuga will last for 4 lakh 32 thousand years and there is still a lot more to go.

Regards
sonu

[quote="sachinwadhwa"]Respected Anupam ji,

“Our eyes can only reach till four yugas but we do not how many kalpas have gone because there is no count at all. For others it is the first kaliyuga and for me it is one of the millions that have gone.”

People who remain at the end of kaliyuga get to see 2 kalpas then? Per our discussion, we will have next kalpa beginning very soon in next 2 years or early. So all of us would see the next kalpa.

Regards[/quote]

[Nitin21]

Maheshji,

Lord Shiva is a greater deity than the navgrahas. Lord Shiva himself worships Shri Vishnu.

Regards
Sonu

[quote="p.mahesh"]Sonuji,

”The newer cultures are not new totally. There is mention of countries like greece etc in Mahabharata. Of course it was not called greece then. These countries were called mletchas”

My question is about other religions. I am not aware of such prior to Mahabharata times.

"Mahabharata clearly states, that there is only one God i.e. Shri Krishna in the forms of Shri Vishnu or Shri Rama."

I think Shiva is also a God.

Regards
Mahesh[/quote]

[Nitin21]

Anupamji,

I think you are right. We jeevas are too insignificant to be judgemental about the level of Gods and deities. Instead of committing a sin as per our half knowledge by considering one or the other greater, we must consider all as a single energy. There are different siddhantas that prove one God is superior over other and viceversa. But this should be judged only from the actual scriptures like RigVeda. Since I have not read it myself, I shall not debate on this and accept and pray All Gods and deities without any notion of Great or Greater.

Thanks for enlightening me on this.

Regards
Sonu

[quote="anupam1968"][quote]Lord Shiva is a greater deity than the navgrahas. Lord Shiva himself worships Shri Vishnu[/quote]

Sonu Ji,

I would like comment upon that especially. See, nobody is greater or smaller than anybody. It is just the play of energy. That is why we see all the chief deities have their ananta swarupa as well. For example Hanuman and Ganesh also have single face and five faces which is nothing but amount of energy and their more energetic form. Same applies to Shiva in the form Pashupati. So, it is God's wish in which form he wants to come in front of the people and with what amount of energy. That is why we find the Ananta swarupa of Krishna as well in the Kurushetra.

This is the reason that we read in Mythology that sometimes Vishnu went to Shiva for help vice versa. But of course there is energy beyond all these forms and he decides in what form he wants to come whether he is Shiva, Vishnu or Mahesh. If we may read Shiva Purana that we may find that Shiva is the cause of everything and in Bhagwatam Vishnu is the cause of everything because he is depicted by showing Brahama (creator) is coming out of his navel sitting upon the Lotus

But the fact remains we all came from different lokas that is why feel inclinations towards different forms same as we find ourselves attracted towards some people in this birth and with some we do not go well. That is nothing but the matter of past relation and the same applies to deities as well. This relation decides from which way we may reach that ultimate truth.

It is also quite possible that real God may come in the form of Shiva and surpass every form known and unknown in matter of energy. So, there is a God who is above all forms and he is the chief decision maker.[/quote]

[Nitin21]

Anupamji,

This period is predefined in the vedas. Vedas as written by Ved Vyasa. A savan year consists of 360 human days. One Savan year is one day for Lord Brahma thus 360 * 360 = 1 year for Lord Brahma. Kaliyuga consists of 1000 brahma years.

After every yuga ends, the new yuga does not take over. Each yuga has a transition period of 1/10 th of the brahma years before and after the yuga. So the kaliyuga years can be 1000+200=1200 brahma years.

1200*360=432000 human years. Of which we have only passed 5109 years since advent of kaliyuga. Hence it is a long way to go for us.

There are lot other details regarding this calculation, but i have only been able to understand from my gurus this much. And this info comes from the vedas itself.

Regards
Sonu

[quote="anupam1968"][quote]This yuga will last for 4 lakh 32 thousand years and there is still a lot[/quote]

Sonu ji,

I would say it is mythological classification of time. But the thing is from where you are measuring it?? There is no point of time or a fix point which is available for you from where you can count these years. The irony is on one hand we measure the time frame according mythological classification and on the other we take it from the end of Mahabharta that according to historians happened 5,200 years back I think.

So, mythological time frame only can be justified when you know how many years back the dwapara ended instead of taking history into it because history has nothing to do with these yugas. Once you know how many years you have to go back to know when Dwapara ended only then you can count these years. If I would say that Dwapara ended 3 lakhs years back from now any historian may think I have gone out of my wits. So, in nutshell first we should know the starting point only then we can measure the end point.[/quote]

[Nitin21]

Maheshji,

The first dictum that we need to arrive at is whether we take the word of historians OR we take our scriptures into account for validation of facts. I go by scriptures and knowledge imparted to me on those grounds by my gurus. And I am talking about the information that has been passed generations down on the basis of actual content and not the translated versions like that of Ganguly for mahabharata. On that basis here is my review.

1. Historians are still finding out the begining of this world. They will never be able to do so. A Fossil cannot overtake the knowledge possessed in vedas. One moment they come out and say the world started 15000 years ago based on one fossil they find in one part of the world and then few years later they find another fossil in another part of the world and advent of the world is pushed further back by a few million years this time. This is a wavering science and cannot be used to determine advanced concepts like previous yugas peoples longevity or when or how did yugas originate.

2. The years in vedas as as per savan years and not gregorian calendar based. There has been no pralay since Ramayana and Mahabharata. Else we would not have had our scriptures intact and knowing about history even today. There is not going to be either until Lord Brahma completes 100 Deva years.

3. Longevities of people in previous yugas was calculated based on different ayus set by vedic astrology principles. Munis lived upto 1000 years during that time and some also had limitless ayus. Parasra still lives through till date in Kaliyuga. Shri Hanuman is Chiranjeevi and continues to live in this yuga too. Modern science will not be able to decipher the facts how they can live for so long.

4. Per savan calendar and calcuations, the gregorian date of advent of kaliyuga is 5109 years before today. This is not as per any fossils or historians. One avatar that is pending in Kaliyuga is that of Kalki who will come to earth when there is about 800 years pending to the close of kali yuga. He will destroy all the mletchas. And if we look at current times, we will be surprised as to how can i person destroy all evil. But at that time the size of the humans will be size of a thumb.

The crux is that human mind today is incapable of understanding the deep rooted history and culture of civilization that we originated from. We do not have 5 senses in control today. Any decision or debate we make is on the basis of the understanding that our mind can decipher. Anything beyond that is illogical. That includes you, me and entire human mankind.

If we go by rationalization, we will not be able to understand anything. For e.g. It is difficult to believe that the Gandiva was 22000 Kgs ... How did Arjuna lift it ? We hear Bheema not carrying astras at all times and killing enemies just by fist fight. Arrows and swords not troubling him at all. Unbelievable !! Why? because we map it to the current context. Even if we are hit by a needle we hold our finger and our facial expressions change. Biological and metaphysical existence of humans was very very advanced in those times. To add to that, the people we talk about are all incarnations of divine and celestial gods and deities. They manifested on bhuvarloka as simple human beings and did not use their divine powers in day to day life. They used it only in the context of killing the powerful evil.

My humble two scents.

Regards
Sonu



[quote="p.mahesh"]Sonuji,

Historians put Ramayana around 7000 back. and Bharata around 5000 back. The difference is not in lakhs. We hear that people like Parasurama existed both the times. We also hear that Jaya, Vijaya were granted to live three births away from Vishnu. But these three births happened to be in different yugas. How can the duration of each birth so many lakhs years? (This was discussed in earlier posts).

Other possibility is, as mentioned few months ago, the time scale in the spiritual plane (Gods plane) may be different from earth plane. Like theory of relativity. But, this was not agreed upon.


But, I expect some anomalous changes during a yuga sandhi, and much more changes during the transformation of one set of 4 yugas to beginning of another set. Otherwise, technically, one can not call it a change.

Mahesh[/quote]

[Nitin21]

"In nutshell when we do not know the time of beginning of Kaliyuga how we can calculate the end point? Who knows that we are at the end of the movie? Also I want to add ,but I am not sure and have to find out, that as far as my memory goes this classification of time is not the contribution of vedas but only relates with mythology."


Anumpaji,

Most of my replies are in the post above to Maheshjis. One addition that i would like to make here is that time in medivial times or during Mahabharata and Ramayana was calculated in Phalas and Ghatis. Our astrology is based on these concepts only else it is difficult to establish the time frames by which what event will occur. These phalas and ghatis are translated by modern astrologers to decipher gregarion times. The whole reason why diwali date changes every year is because we as per scriptures count one year complete from Chaitra to Chaitra and not 1st Jan to 31st Dec.

The reason why we are able to decipher the kalki avatar time on earth is on the basis of shlokas and times mentioned in our scriptures. Every avatar future and past is a proof in Ramayana and Mahabharata and puranas. Rest of the techniques are wavering, fallible and susceptible to change. All we need is a divine guru and a knowledgeable person who can decipher the content of these vedas in the correct sense and show us the path.

Regards
Sonu

[Nitin21]

Anupamji,

Astronomy will not find grounds on these calculations for divine reasons. In Mahabharata, there were 3 eclipses in 18 days. Astronomers are still circling around the notion of how it can happen and trying to find out objectivity by computer related softwares. But the fact is that Shri Krishna was guiding the planets during that time. There is a point where in he instructed jupiter to circle around 13 times in a day to match the stars he wanted. This would have otherwise been possible in only 13 years. Todays astronomical softwares will not be able to ground those facts.

We are talking about people who wrote these puranas and vedas and have limitless ayu. It is kaliyuga today and not dwapara yuga. Simple fact being that Vimsotari dasa of kaliyuga ayu has been 120 years and 5 days to the max and we dont see anyone around for more than 109 years to the max. This is just one fact. There are others to comprehend that are beyond the scope of the discussion here.


We hear Sri Rama killing army of Ravana single handedly. Ramayana war was bigger than the mahabharata war. Ravana had 36000 crore of highly strong rakshasas each of them as strong as himself. Where as in maharatha we see 18 crores as number. When we hear Vanar sena helped Sri Rama to conquer lanka, do we really mean that the task was not possible for Sri Rama without them ? In fact, In the kumbhakaran and Indrajit episode, all the vanaras were being thrown away by kumbhakaran like the flies while they were at their mightiest fighting him to protect Sri Rama.

It was all Leela by Sri Rama. Eventually, he shot arrows after arrows and handicapped Kumbhakarana by first amputing his feet and hands with arrows and then his head. When the army of 36000 crore rakshasas was adventing towards Sri Rama, they all fell like pins with Sri Rama's arrows. If we were to decipher it scientifically, it is not possible to throw those many arrows in a second and still protect yourself. Anyone who watched Sri Rama during that phase would only see him still. Because, he caused lot many movements in a fraction of second to shoot those many arrows and its not possible for a naked eye to follow that speed of movement.

Any attempt to understand divine granthas by way of science will never yield results. Infact it will be all the more complex.

Not many people know that It was not Sitadevi whom Ravana took to lanka. If he did, lanka would have never been destroyed. The reason, Sitadev is sakshaat lakshmi. Wherever Lakshmi resides, there cannot be demolition. Moreover, Sri Rama and Sita cannot be seperated ever. They are together in one or the other incarnation, one or the othe form. It was all leela on behalf of Sri Rama, because he had taken birth as a human and had to live like a human while still protecting divine interests.

Regards
Sonu

[Nitin21]

Maheshji,

I am not saying that the world will not change at all. As anupamji always mentions that change is inevitable from moment to moment and yuga to yuga. So there will be changes but it will be withing the yuga and within the divine powers as denoted in puranas. There will be no pralay for that period.

Lets step back and go to mahabharata period. Draupadi cheer haran was the worst and shameful act in the history of our culture. We should have had pralay immediately after those incidents after the vengence was taken. This is as per the mindset then, where people were of utmost religious nature and would consider shrapas etc so seriously that it would give effects for sure.

But pralay did not happen. Instead the changes took place and world changed. The point that i am trying to help understand is that pralay is not determinant on what happens in the bhuvarvaloka. It is depenedent on days that Lord Brahma completes in the universe.

Just like the way i mentioned Kaliyuga for 1200 deva years including sandhi. The time frame has been appropriately defined for dwapar and treta yugas also. Infact kaliyuga has the lowest time of them all.

You and me are very small entities to understand this maheshji. We are born in times where in not even one of our 5 senses is in control. How will we see the divine messages or get divine blessings. Moreover there are some puranas, which cannot be read during the entire life cycle of a human being in kaliyuga because we only have 120 years that too to the max. And our longevity keeps reducing everyday on the basis of sins we commit.

Regards
Sonu

[quote="p.mahesh"]Sonuji,

Your views are fine. But this number 4 lakh 32 thousand years
is some what fishy. It could be a relative one but not absolute.
The present state of affairs going on in the world obviously
can not contune for around 4 lakh years more.

Mahesh[/quote]

[sachinwadhwa]

Respected Anupam ji,

“I also read somewhere that Ravana kidnapped Sita due to the behest of Shiva because it was part of divine planning and everybody knew about it. Ravana was commanded to play the part of villain and he accepted it wholeheartedly without any grudges on his part.”

I am sure everything is Divine planning but what was the reason behind it?

Regards

[sachinwadhwa]

Respected Anupam ji,

I agree with you on this one too. Ravana was known to be one of the most learned scholars of his era. He had no match on human plane. Despite this he was involved in separating Sita from Rama which led to separation of Sita from Luv Kush also. He could not have done that for sure. However, I think the only reason was that at the end of the yuga, god wanted to tell the world that that we should do good deeds in life, so Ravana / Rama / Sita / Hanuman were chosen by the Ananta parmeshwar. He wanted to tell the world if you do bad deeds, you will get bad results.
Similarly, I think even Kakeyi and Manthira were also chosen.

Do you think by end of this Kalpa, lord would be able to clean up the negative image of Ravana / his family / Kakeyi / Manthira ?

Regards

[sachinwadhwa]

Also, will the end of Kalpa also witness anyone with immense tamas, to provide the balance of 3 gunas?

[Nitin21]

Anupamji,

I would like to address points one by one:

1. The first and the foremost truth of this universe is that the God is omnipotent and The Almighty does not have an ayu. He neither has a beginning, nor the middle nor the end. This makes the lord invincible and on a totally different plane where we cannot compare anyone to the almighty.

2. There are many translated versions as you correctly said. But the translated versions have to be backed up by puranas. Some of them are smritis and some are shrutis. Smritis have to be backed up by scriptures for them to be acceptable. Otherwise, I can start writing a smriti of Mahabharata today which is my own version, publicise it, make it famous and people 200 yrs later consider me as part of the writers. In any case, it is not so, because I am not comparable to Sage parasara and Sage Kasyap and hence my smritis even if I created, do not count in reality. So giving importance to 28 versions of Ramayana we will make our thought process more and more complex. There is only one truth the epics as backed up by scriptures, not by translators. Every God realized soul cannot be put on an equal plane. If that would be the case, Sage Parsara, Chiranjeevi Shri Hanuman and Vivekananda could all be compared with each other. That's not the case. Swami Vivekananda was a mortal and a blessed soul but not an incarnation of any deity. Same goes for others.

3. I do not have slightest of disagreement that most of us are tamasik souls and need logic to surrender to any thought process. I am completely in sync with you on that. However, my point in above posts has been, that, our logic is not the same as logic of our sages. We are nowhere near to them. I accept complete defeat in that aspect. Because of the simple reason, we do not have even one sense in our control as against all the five by our sages. How will we be able to make a prudent judgement on the scriptures with not even one sense in control ? Because, then we will not be able to realize the omnipresence of God. It will be mere hallucination. Hence, I completely put my faith on the scriptures and as i said above, not the translated and mutilated ones, but as supported by puranas, that i learn from some learned people.

4. Ravana was a great learned astrologer. He knew his fate. In fact in adhyatmic puranas, he is said to have going to the mountain everyday to pray Shri Vishnu, as to when will he come and give him moksha. Death by the hands of God gives moksha. As I said above, Ravana abducted Sitakrutti and not the actual Sitadevi. Ravana was a learned brahmin and even Sri Rama paid him saastang pranam. The reason, being a brahmin must be respected. What this did was it reduced Ravan's longevity, as elders bowing in front of youngers is not right. And we all know, who Sri Rama was.

5. We as kaliyug souls think everything from a maya perspective. Everything right or wrong is as we decipher by our own mind. Except for some very divine souls, who are not even publicised in the world today, we are all in the grip of maya.

The objective of epics was that the human mankind would learn the basics as depicted without any debate because it was enacted by the immortals, Gods and the deities. We as humans are too insignificant to debate the actions committed by the heroes and villains of that era. All the acts of that era were actions and reactions of the karmas of the past and requirements of the future. Those who resorted to the Lord attained heaven and moksha. Those who did not were caught in the endless cycle of birth and rebirth. Shri Krishna mentions in Mahabharatha to leave our vows unto him and he will take care of everything. E.g. Draupadi Cheerharan, Till the time she had a clan of her sari in hand, Shri Krishna did not appear to help. Because by holding on to Clan she was doubting the efficacy and supremacy of the Lord. The moment she left and raised both hands to pray Shri Krishna, Lord appeared instantly and saved her from humiliation.

My humble opinion.

Regards
Sonu

[Nitin21]

Anupamji,

It has been my pleasure to have come in contact with you and none of your statements is irritating. Infact, it's enlightening.


I would check back once again on the Vivekananda scenario you mentioned. But, as i said these incarnations have to be backed up by scriptures and I will do some research.

Secondly, There are many God realised souls that have occured in Kaliyuga. But there is a vast difference between a God realized soul and an amsha of God and an avatara of God. They all go in the ascending order as i mentioned. There are specific planetory combinations prescribed in scriptures which when takes place will give birth to the amshas and avataras of God.

Mortals cannot be worshipped equivalent to God. However, they can be the Gurus and the most respected ones. I dont have slightest of doubts that Vivekananda and Ramkrishna paramhansa were God realized souls. But we cannot compare them to amshas and avataras of deities. These are different aspects.

Regarding smelling of the mind and reading peoples views, this does not qualify for a person to be an amsha or incarnation of the almighty or the blessed ones. Magical powers and siddhis are plenty in vogue even today, albeit not under publicity. But not all possessing those siddhis are deities. They are merely one level above the normal human beings by virtue of their vidya.

It's a tough task to differentiate hallucination from actual presence of God. Hallucination can happen to the most enlightened souls because their devotion is extreme and the mind is alwyas in the dhyana of God.

Regards
Sonu

[Nitin21]

Anupamji,

The belief has to be either full or none. Half belief cannot take us anywhere. Descendence of a Saptarishi in Kaliyuga is not there. There will be mortals who will come guide the people to religion, be preceptors and devote themselves to God. But these are not incarnations.

You are saying that every jeeva becomes parmatma once he realizes God. And that there is no difference between the omnipotent God and the Jeeva once this state is achieved.

Sage Parasara says every jeeva has two parts 1. Jeevatma amsa and 2. Parmatma Amsa. Only when the paramatma amsa takes over the jeeva it is known as avatara. And Paramatma amsa comes in the full manifestation of the forms of various planets on earth and is predecided.

For e.g. Sun came as Lord Sri Rama and Moon came as Shri Krishna, Narasimha as Mars and list goes on. One manifestation that is pending in this yuga is Kalki avatar. Kalki will come at a time when human longevity will only be 20 years. Will clean the bhuvarloka of the mletchas. After this kaliyuga will be near to end with some specific planetory combinations. This is all pre-decided.

The names that you have mentioned are highly realized souls and connected to God as you are right. But the Paramatma amsa has not taken over their jeevatma. If it was they would be full manifestation of some planets and the universe would be waiting for their arrival on earth.

By the virtue of this debate, anyone can become God is what I understand from your posts. But it will never be. We can elevate your energy levels, remove the duality and be closer to God. But by saying that every jeeva can become paramatma, we are challenging the omnipotence of Shri Vishnu. There is only one God and its pre-defined rupas like Brahma and Shiva, and it will continue to be so irrespective of our thoughts and logical conclusions. And if any jeeva has to be God, paramatma will come and take over his jeeva in the full incarnation form.

Rest all is devotion, philosophy and realization towards God. No matter what we do, we will only remain bhakthas. Energy levels will increase and senses under control. But we will still be jeevatmas with an amsa of paramatma within us.

Lastly, i can only say if we doubt the greatness of the people of the caliber of Ved Vyasa and say that even he could have been hallucinated, who, Shri Krishna in Mahabharata claims to be himself, then we justify ourselves as being born in kaliyuga. That includes both of us Anupamji. All this with utmost and due respect to Sri Ramkrishna Paramhansa and Swami Vivekananda.

Regards
Sonu

[Nitin21]

Anupamji,

No matter what we believe of other topics, there is certainly some connection between us. While i was writing my last post, my head started aching severly. I started reciting MMM but of no use. I was trying to establish what could be sudden reason but could not find any. After some recitations of MMM i resorted to Hanuman Chalisa and the headache started fading a little bit but not completely. I am not sure what it could be.

The only events since i recited MMM in the morning and writing this post were chatting with an old friend, having veg breakfast, removing Shiva Parvati wallpaper from my desktop for a while as I was not sure i was in purity of mind while chatting with my friend.

If you see my psychle, you will clearly observe that even in headache, I do not take anacin or aspirin, but instead resorted to God in the first place. So, please accept my heartfelt apologies in case i have gone overboard with my religious thoughts. But, that's how I think Anupamji.

I believe in the concepts of Shiva-Shakti as much as you do and everything that you mentioned below is truth. The only difference I see is that while you consider the merging of two engergies as one and jeeva becomes parmatama, I consider it as being getting closer to the Omnipotent God and serve the almighty as a bhakta. Because, my belief is that i can only be second highest form of enery with maximum tapas. The highest form will only be Shri Krishna and his virupas.

For me vedas, scriptures and puranas are all on a very high plane. There is no discrepancy amongst these to be one over the other. I learnt this valuable lesson from you yesterday and corrected myself immediately instead of inviting wrath of the Gods and deities, by taking one great over the other.

My objective was only to emphasise the omnipotence of God and mention that the almighty is unparalleled. I would like to apologize once again from the bottom of my heart in case I drifted you away from the topic OR hurt anyway.

It has been good to expand my horizons by seeing the other side of the coin that you have presented.

Regards
Sonu

[sachinwadhwa]

Respected Anupam ji,

1.
“Ravana played the same part as per the commands of Rudra.”

If Ravana played the role as per commands of Rudra, then why will he be held responsible for Ram-sita separation? Is the Divine cosmos still holding him responsible? If yes then why. It is said that if you do anything as per divine command, you do not take any load of karmas.

2.
“He showed me a vision where Ravan was standing right at the door-step of Sita's hut requesting her with tears in his eyes to come with her since according to divine plan he has to take her away”

If the objective was to fight with Rama, then Ravana need not bring Sita along to lanka. He could have attacked Rama to wage a war. What was the divine objective of bringing Sita to lanka?

3.
“Do you think by end of this Kalpa, lord would be able to clean up the negative image of Ravana / his family / Kakeyi / Manthira in eyes of common masses?”

This is the same question I have asked in one of my previous post

4.
“Also, will the end of Kalpa also witness anyone with immense tamas, to provide the balance of 3 gunas?”

This is the same question I have asked in one of my previous post

5.
“I think Indra has had greater part as far as sins are concerned then why any incarnation did not come to stop him ever? Why he was left scot free in every yuga? Why every time incarnation came for Rakshasas only?”

The soul which was currently Indra had accumulated punas and it was in the process of exhausting them, so no one interfered as it was a natural process. Rakshasas are generally considered to have negative tendencies with an exception of few (Ravana, Marich, Vibhishan). To balance the tamas tendencies, the incarnations were born.

6.
“And the one person who stood in front of Devas he was at last made a villain? Why we can't call him an incarnation of Rudra? What I may call it except as being cultural biased.”

Is there any scripture around which talks about Ravana being an incarnation of Rudra? Why didn’t any of the realized souls in the past spoke / write about it.
Also, if this was divine orders then why did Vibhishan left Ravana?

Regards

[sachinwadhwa]

Respected Anupam ji,

If this was not the first kalpa then why did god decided to remove the concept of brahma rakshasas from this planet in this kalpa?

According to you  there is divine energy behind ravana which made him play a negative role and you can also see it. So there must be divine energy behind duryodhana also. He also did things to take negativity at it's epitome so that pandavas can be highlighted as great souls. 

Then I am sure the negative acts done by kakiye and manthira were also to achieve the divine mission of killing demons, because if they didn't sent Rama to forest there would not have been Ramayana.

Yukteshwara did the calculation of Kali yuga and dwapar yuga. No one is able to get his calculations. Still we cannot say him to be wrong as he did as per divine communication. Similarly, I have not seen what you have seen but because you are doing things as per divine communication, so it must right in it's own way. Once I am fortunate enough to see it, only then I can discuss it correctly. Until then I would be talking in thin air and without any evidence / experience.

Regards