On Destiny vs. Freewill

[astroboy]

by Basab » Wed May 09, 2012 1:59 pm
I feel we all have a little free will, but it's mostly destiny.

Nice. finally some acceptance. welcome back basab.

[Basab]

Deepakji,

Thank you for the welcome. Yes, I feel these days that there is free will to some extent.

[astroboy]

we shall sync in tune. Glad you see my side of the equation. I never discounted your's by the way.

[Basab]

Deepakji,

I understand your point now. Free will has to be there because without free will new karmas cannot be created. Destiny is there too as a lot of things we see happen on which we have absolutely no control. I know you believe in destiny, but you also believe in free will. That's the right way to look at it.

[Ghrishneswar]

Free will is possible only when you renounce desires, material comforts, pleasures etc.
As long as you have them you are tied to fate or destiny.
I feel i can exercise freewill when i have nothing to loose or fear.
As long as i have some desire or possession i am shackled by my destiny.
I do not know how others feel about.

[aseem82]

WELCOME BACK, BASAB!!!

Free will is possible only when you renounce desires, material comforts, pleasures etc.

If we renounce desires, material comforts, pleasures, etc., then where we wil use free will?

[Basab]

Thanks, Aseem.

[aseem82]

No need to say thanks.

you wrote that we all have a little freewill, but it is mostly destiny.

I sense some hidden meaning in the last 4 words?

[Ghrishneswar]

WELCOME BACK, BASAB!!!

Free will is possible only when you renounce desires, material comforts, pleasures etc.

If we renounce desires, material comforts, pleasures, etc., then where we wil use free will?

Aseem,

It is interpretation of free will. Desire for something is not free will. Free will to me is ability to choose and do what you want to do.
Eating food is not desire. Free will is renouncing non-veg food. You have the option but you do not do it because of your desire. You are not able to exercise your free will because you are bound by desire.
This may not come too well but here is another hyperbolic example
Choosing not to kill a lion when he is attacking you is free will. You are able to do it only because you do not have desire to live long enough.

There are 90% things in our life which we do due to our desires- kaama , krodha, moha, lobha. Our decision are governed by them. Hence we cannot exercise free will. The stronger the desires/addictions are the lesser the free will. In some it these desires are insurmountable and hence it seems there is no free will available. For most mortals who are materialistic and hence have desires, the availbale free will is less compared to someone who has renounced.

But this topic can go on and on with no end in sight.

[Basab]

Ghrineswar,

What's your take on telepathy and also on strong wishes coming true in regard to destiny and free will? Sometimes I have seen when I am thinking deeply about a person, the person contacts me. Then it happens this way also sometimes that when we deeply desire something, we get it. What will you call them--destiny or free will?

[Basab]

Ghrishneswar,

You are right, one needs to be detached first to exercise free will; otherwise, being the slaves of the senses, a he will do as his senses will make him do. This is precisely what Anupamji always said.

[Ghrishneswar]

Ghrineswar,

What's your take on telepathy and also on strong wishes coming true in regard to destiny and free will? Sometimes I have seen when I am thinking deeply about a person, the person contacts me. Then it happens this way also sometimes that when we deeply desire something, we get it. What will you call them--destiny or free will?

Desires whether superficial or deep is not free will. It is still desire. Telepathy can be considered a very deep desire that gets fulfilled for some or it can be considered a gift that very few have.
Desires get fulfilled if you have put in enough effort and have all the stars aligned in your favour.

Free will is about making choices. You have no say in the card you are dealt but you can choose how to play. Free will is not held to ransom by any gift/destiny or desire.

This ability to see the choice in everything is the hardest thing to do. Recognizing that there are options on any situation is the toughest thing to do. An ordinary mortal like you or me may not even recognize that there is a choice. When you cannot recognize that there is an option how will you exercise your free-will? Free will comes into picture only when you can see options.

For 99.999% of us free will is available to a very limited extent as we are bound by our own desires. I am the 99.999%.

[Basab]

Thanks you, Ghrishneswar for explaining so beautifully. I agree with you completely.

[paro.xiss]

Dear Basab Ji,
Welcome back
This forum really missed you badly.
I do understand the circumstances that made you disoriented with this forum & events & attitude that made you stop giving predictions & reading charts, but we hope you can contribute to student section in your spare time.We all are eager to gain a few drops from the vast ocean of your knowledge & experience.
Thanks & Regards.

[Basab]

Hi Paro,

Thank you for the welcome. I don't know what to say. God has his own way of giving messages. Today in the morning I had decided to leave the forum once more, but now I get a welcome message from you. I feel, it's God's message to me, telling me that I am welcome here, not like as I have been thinking earlier.

About losing interest in this forum, the only reason is that my friends are no more here. I have been in this forum for 5. I used to love coming to the forum earlier. I was very passionate about astrology in my early days in the forum, and then, I got into spirituality, and I really loved writing about it. Now, I don't feel like writing here because, where are my friends? They have all gone. I miss them very much. I wish they were here, but they have moved ahead in life. I am sure they too remember the great time we had here. I really cherish those days. Those days will never come back--they can never come back. Now, there are new people, it's their time to create memories for themselves.

I will try to write sometime, but then, honestly speaking, I don't feel like writing. Lova is not like it used to be. It's become very dull now a days. I see more people are interested in chatting than in discussing astrology and spirituality here. But then, with time things change... this is the new development in the forum, and one has to move on with the times, I guess.

I have given up astrology since long. I sometimes see a chart or two when my friends asks me to, but it's been a long time since I have read a book on astrology or read an article on it.

You have praised me to the skies, but the truth is that I never learned much in astrology. There are very highly learned and skilled astrologers here. I am sure they are making regular contributions, and so, I don't really understand why I am required here. But it's very kind of you to welcome me.

[paro.xiss]

Dear Basab Ji,
I do understand your situation.
Again its your free-will to decide & maybe fate will take the final call.
You have moved on & have taken it to the next level-spirituality, bcoz you have understood the game that The Almighty & Fate is playing with us, with us merely puppets in all this, with strings attached.
Maybe it will take some more time for Ignoramus like me to understand this vicious cycle of Maaya.
Thanks for the wonderful posts.
All the Best wherever life takes you.
Thanks & Regards.

[Basab]

Thanks, Paro. Every decision I take in life, I believe it' is as per destiny's wish. I am a very big believer of destiny, though I agree that there is a little free will, too. It's not "moving on to the next level" for me in the sense you are thinking. It's just this that sometime back I got disillusioned with the astrology of the present time.

I was reading your posts, and believe me, that's the confusion I had too: nothing is making much sense to me when it comes to astrology. Somehow theories are being fitted in to prove a point, I fee;. It's not astrology as far as I am concerned. Retrospective analysis of charts according to me is of no value as such. But then, it's my opinion, so I don't want anyone to get upset reading it.

Astrology is a very difficult subject. It takes years of dedication to master it. I had interest in it, but then, not that much interest that I would put all my heart and soul to it. If I can do that ever in the future, I will get back to astrology once more, but otherwise I will go ahead with my reading spiritual books as I am doing now. I feel astrology can be very damaging, just like it can be helpful. Astrology helped me a lot, but at the same time it was harmful for me too. It can misguide a person terribly believe me, and that's not the fault of astrology, but of the astrologers, to be precise.

And then, I feel, it's no good knowing what period you are running and what period you are not running. Suppose you are told, you have such and such planets bad in your chart and such and such periods bad, it will affect your mind definitely, even though you choose to remain unaffected by it. It happened with me, and I feel it happens with everyone, though most people don't like to agree with that. Even if you are studying astrology, keeping your chart aside, your mind somehow gets influenced the planets. They get a grip over you, and that's something I wished to be free from. I wished to think on my own, didn't want my thoughts to be influenced by the planets. So, it it is quite an irony that I who so much believe in destiny want to get out of the shackles of the planets?

Coming to spirituality, well, I am not spiritual at all. It's just this that I like reading on it. It is quite soothing, and it makes me feel free and independent, unlike astrology, which makes me feel like I am tied down completely by the planets.

Yes, I always believe that we are puppets in the hands of God, but you know what when you fall in love with Him, the almighty, in whose hands you are like a puppet, you stop feeling like a puppet. You let Him play with your life because it's Him, your nearest, your dearest, who is playing with it, not some cold planets, who are like strangers to you, placed in the distant sky.

Don't think that way that I have reached a higher level. I am in the same level as you are. It's difficult to get out of the trap of maya. It's almost impossible. I fall in that trap everyday, and I smile to myself thinking, that it's God's maya, am I greater than Him that I will be able to escape it. It's His wish whether you will stay in the maya of the world or whether you will leave it. It's not on us to decide that.

Now, before I end, please don't say goodbye to me as yet. As I said, you welcomed me back when I was leaving the forum, and I took it as God's message to me that I shouldn't leave it now. Maybe, I won't write as regularly as I used to, but then, I will be here and write sometimes if I feel like. Thanks once more for your kind words.

[charvak]

How to know an event is due to destiny or free will.

[Shivoham]

Basab,
I know it's been 7 years & you are no longer active on the forum but your words had a lot of wisdom. My Gratitude.