Astrology and spirituality in this forum

[Dev]

Krishna,

Fine, since you said about your problems, I said sorry.
Nice that you are enjoying with your family. Yes, having a happy family life plays important role in any achievement whatever it is. It is good that your wife also supports meditation and listening to discourses.
Such frequency match is essential for leading a happy family life.

Yes, I would also like to watch thriller movies, where to get the CDs. Where could I watch.
I like everything and so I have less time for anyone.

For me, if I can start singing I can even forget myself. Astrology and spirituality also interests me a lot though I am still a novice. The experiences of people like u helps apart from many others in the forum.
Dev

[krishnagopal1968]

Dev Ji,

I think by downloading torrents, you can watch the movies. Please try this website www.torrentz.com.

If you have internet connection in broadband, it will be more easy. Downloading takes sometimes one day but it is still worthy.

[Dev]

Krishna:

Drop that ji.
I will do that downloading Thank you for the link. Yes I do have broadband.
By the way which planet is responsible for interests in such movies, is it rahu?
Dev

[krishnagopal1968]

Ok! Dev:

Why to bother about planet for movies?!!

yes rahu may indicate that.

[Dev]

Thanks Krishna. It is because this thread is for astrology and spirituality . So that would become an astromovie.
Dev

[krishnagopal1968]

Welcome Dev,

It is true!

In my view,we can have very fine astrological as well as spiritual insights form certain movies.

kindly watch it and then we can continue further astrological/spiritual discussions from those movies

[Dev]

Yes Krishna. Thank you, I will download when I find time and watch them, Yes definitely we can connect them to astrology and spirituality. You seem to have controlled your anger in general but I think I would take more time.

Dev

[Dev]

Dear all:

I have some astrological questions which can have different answers. Experts may give their views:

1. Suppose saturn is 5th lord(along with another lordship) for a particular horoscope, who is placed in 3rd
house, he would be aspecting the 5th house but 3rd is 11th from 5th. Aspecting 5th is bad, but 11th from
5th is good for the 5th house, so what is the net effect?
2. For tula lagna, sat is yoga karaka being kendra kona lord, now will he funtion as yogakarak irrespective of
where he is placed for eg in the 3rd, because by definition he becomes a yogakarak, so would it be that
irrespective of where he is placed he would either be strong or a weak yogakarak and can never harm?
3. Suppose that jupiter is lord of 2nd and 5th house for a person. Is it always good for him to strengthen jupiter
by wearing Pushparag, what if he is in the nakshatra of say venus who is his enemy and also a malefic for
the above lagna.
4. If jupiter is 5th and 8th lord for a horoscope, if jupiter is in the 5th, what are his effects, and if in 8th what
are the effects. Being in one house, does it affect the other house?
5. If 5th lord is conjunct with 3rd and 6th lord say in 3rd house, for eg mesha lagna, mercury and sun in 3rd
house, will it weaken sun or strengthen mercury or both effects happen simultaneously?
6. Say for mesh lagna sun is in 3rd, mars in 6th and sat in 12th, now if all three aspect the 9th house, by 7th,
4th and 10th aspects respectively, would u say, 9th house gets 3 melefic aspects or would you say 5th lord
sun is apecting 9th, lagna lord is aspecting 9th, and they are his friends and so effect is good. Which effect
would domintate?
7. It is said that atmakaraka is one who teaches lesson to the individual and his dasa will not be an easy going
one. But then what about a person who has sun as atmakaraka and is born with 2years of sun dasa left. Then
it should be in buktis but sun bukti would be too short, the longest being sukra dasa sun bukti being one year
and people born during sun dasa may not experience sukra dasa in their life time unless they live for more
than 100 years.

Thanks,
Dev

[Dev]

Hi All:

I wanted to say here that though this thread is on astrology and spirituality, there are several things hidden in spirituality one of which is MUSIC.
There is no spiritual evolved person who can dislike music. It is called Nada yoga. It is one of the forms of yoga.
The so called Trinity of Carnatic music, most of you are aware of -Tyagaraja, Dikshitar and Syama Sastri were all in highest spiritual level. Tyagaraja was a Ram bhakt, Dikshitar and Sastri were Devi upasakas and the corresponding songs and lyrics show their devotion towards a particular God form. Also others like Sadashivabrahmendra, Othukadu Venkatasubbaiyer(who is said to have seen Krishna), Purandaradasa were all highly spiritual. In fact, not only that, Dikshitar has composed one kriti each on the navagrahas in sanskrit.

The stalwarts above went into deep meditation which enabled them to compose music of highest form which is excellent both wrt lyrics and tune and would ever remain. So music cannot be separated from spirituality or even astrology in a way. I can never think of leaving out music in my threads since music is inherent there.

Dev

[Dev]

Also there is no spritual leader who has reached highest level in spirituality, who dislikes music proving the point that music and spirituality are interconnected.
Also music has a lot to do with intellingence and many nobel laurates were even well versed in music. Ramanujam, Chandrashekar, C.V.Raman and even foreigner laurates were either skilled or atleast rasikas of classical music.
Musical notes when overpowered by rhythm and noise, is called adhama music ie it is not music at all. The melody is given the greatest importance and accompaniments should only accompany and not dominate.

Even several stalwarts in music today have other profession in addition to having music as one of the professions - like Charter accountant, scientists, engineers, doctors, MSA's, lawyers etc.

So music can also help in reaching higher towards spirituality and the examples are many including Saint Tyagaraja(to whom Lord Rama and Sita, Lakshmana appeared) , Dikshitar and Shymama Sastri, Meerabai, Surdas and so on.

Dev

[krishnagopal1968]

Dev Ji,

Yes, Music has a great connection to spirituality. You have mentioned many south Indian masters. And there are many in north and all over India too. (thanks to my destiny of working in both north/south) “Ustad” they are called.

In north after the advent of mughals, a different kind of music started developing. Sufis are the reason for this great music. Ghazals, Qawwalis are their great creation.

Usually one thinks nodes not words are important but the hidden reality is the silence between two nodes. (Ramanan ji rightly observed this) But Sufis went still further.

They went into the very words and found certain words strike the heart. The script of Urdu/Persian/arabic is from right to left unlike the left to right script of devnagri and other languages. This has a deep meaning.

Our brain has two hemispheres, right one is subjective,feminine ,poetic, intuitive and connected to left hand and left one is objective, masculine, scientific, logical and connected to right hand.

Our right side of brain starts to function when we listen to certain words, devotional music. The shift happens if we watch ourselves attentively.

So in my view, listening to urdu is better than sanskrit mantras as it can strike the heart easily, even if we don't understand the exact meaning!! (suniti ji, don't be offended pl.

Though in my view any music created is still artificial and hence a lower kind of spirituality. Uncreated one is in our anahat nad. To make us listen to that one is the aim of real musicians who are spiritual and create a music which makes our mind easily silent!

[R V RAMANAN]

Dear Krishna-ji,
Your last 3 lines of your above post was what I was always referring to about the source of music, poesy in built in all of us.

Thank you for a very nice post.

At some point in time I think we should strive to leave the peripheries (nuni pul) and get as much close to the core as possible.

Regards,
Ramanan

[Dev]

Dear krishna:

Drop the Ji.

Yes, in the north too there are many.
Islamic rule (Mughals) over northern India caused fusion of Hindu and Muslim ideas bringing qawwali and khayal.
Amir Khusrau was called father of Hindustani classical music. He introduced the raga Yaman Kalyan which is popular both in the north and the south. Then there were Composers like Kabir, Nanak. Jayadeva, Meerabai who were highly spiritual.
Tansen( Akbar’s rule) is said to have introduced a number of innovations in ragas & compositions. It is said, he could light fires by singing raga Deepak.
Types of compositions in Hindustani inlcude classical Bhajan, Dhrupad, Khyal Tarana Thumri Ghazal (originally Persian form of poetry).
Ghazal is wonderful to hear and many sung by Hariharan are fantastic. Bhajans are also great and are used equally in the south too.
I heard someone from Turkey sing some songs and I was surprised how it was so similar to some ragas in India. So the influence of Islamic tunes and the blending of our music and theirs is also seen overall especially in Hindustani music, of course, naturally, there have been mutual influence between Hindustani and carnatic, both being from India.

Yes the silence between two nodes is improtant
Yes, the right side of brain is related to music and the left to science, logic and so on.

I cannot comment on music created being artificial and hence a lower kind of spirituality because those who created were mostly in the highest spiritual state. Of course when others sing, they may not be in the state in which the original stalwarts created.
Uncreated one is in our anahat nad. To make us listen to that one is the aim of real musicians who are spiritual and create a music which makes our mind easily silent! Yes, this I agree but that would be the highest spiritual state which may be difficult to reach from the level most of us are in.

Dev

[Dev]

Dear Ramanan:

Nice quotes.

Spiritual discipline is easy in the beginning, difficult midway and natural later on.
Yes, I agree since I find it easy and so I am in the beginning.

Patience brings in discipline more than severe austerities. The most disciplined seeketh not.
Very true, that is why patience itself is difficult to achieve easily.

Mere regularity is not discipline. If it is so, all the cranes should be masters.
But will it not help in getting disciplined when the mind is aiming at bringing and achieving discipline?

Passion destroys discipline as a spark devours a mansion.
Yes getting rid of passion is a big step.

The disciplined know the Truth. That is why they sacrifice their lives willingly. The disciplined are never defeated.
Yes, they have reached that stage only after crossing so many hurdles and so they are closer to truth.

There is nothing exclusive about being disciplined; it is a common factor like life breath.
For the one who knows its value, he becomes synonymous with it.

The disciplined are resourceful. We are respected not for our deeds but for the discipline, that makes them possible. Discipline alone can defy all odds.
Yes

We can always see that the disciplined have time for everything.
Yes

The Alphabets continue until you say a goodbye to learning. In the life of an aspirant, being practical is the alphabet.
Yes and being practical is being open to learning and being conscious to the fact that one can never say goodbye to learning.

Regards
Dev

[krishnagopal1968]

Ramanan Ji,

Thanks for the response. I fully agree with your words that one should try to find out the core instead of leaning on periphery. Nunipul is a fine example. (it is a tamil word and i don't know the right translation. At the most, it shows surface grinding )

[krishnagopal1968]

Dev:

Nice to see your knowledge about Hindustani music. I agree with you about the state of original creators. However all great and divine music comes only if one is absent, is my view.

The original creators carried the essence and people who sing otherwise are only like technicians. Ofcourse they also create good music when their ego is absent. It is very difficult to be in that creative plane always for a musician.

Also in music the danger of public performance is there. It is for this reason Prophet Mohammed banned music in Islam but allowed in mild form.

There is something which descends when our egos are nomore. That essence, functions the same in different fields not necessarily in music alone.

[kandhan]

krishnaji

have you finished your spiritual chronicles? i think it is at your second visit to Yogi RamSurthKumar when you did pradakshina of his statue thrice. or did i loose the subsequent posts on this? was following it eagerly.

[Dev]

Krishna:

However all great and divine music comes only if one is absent, is my view.
I agree.

The original creators carried the essence and people who sing otherwise are only like technicians. Ofcourse they also create good music when their ego is absent. It is very difficult to be in that creative plane always for a musician.
Yes, but the thing is the creators went into deep divine meditation and then created, so that was in total surrender to God and not to humans. That is the reason Saint Tyagaraja refused to sing in praise of the King though he was promised huge sum of money. It is not easy for all to be in that plane.
There are even creators in music who had and have ego but eventually atleast slowly they seem to be getting away from it.

Regarding singers, I would not call them technicians since there are rag alaap, swar prasthar, neraval etc which are quite individualistic. They do need originality but the in the extent of originality the singer varies.

That is why music was even called rajasic and not satvik.

Some artists and singers are highly egoistic, behind money, fame and even have other weaknesses.

Also in music the danger of public performance is there. It is for this reason Prophet Mohammed banned music in Islam but allowed in mild form.
I hope what u meant here was when one performs he is not doing it in atmartha way ie not in a divine way. It becomes rajasic since he expects good audience wants best performance from himself, expects huge sums of money and so on.

There is something which descends when our egos are nomore. That essence, functions the same in different fields not necessarily in music alone.

Very very true.
But still I field the more one learns the more humble he becomes and the more he realises that he needs much more to learn. That is why you can see as the singers and musicians get more and more fame, they become more and more humble and slowly their ego level tends to go down.

Dev

[krishnagopal1968]

Kandhan Ji,

Thanks for your post. Right now I don't feel to write, as there is no inner urge.

I have had seven darshans with Yogi and shared my experiences with five darshans.

I will write when it wills

[krishnagopal1968]

Dev,

Yes there is originality in every singer but in my view if the heart is not opened, then it is just mundane. If we look at majority of artist's lives, there is not much resonance of that space.

But I consider every singer,artist as a form of celestial being or can say a Gandarva. There is something divine in them. But because it is just one aspect/channel, it cannot penetrate deep.

Since art/music is a special talent, it invariably gives a ego! only some fortunate ones can escape that. But each human being can experience that space if they can be in egoless state.

So in my view direct experience if flown through everyday lives, is more than enough.

[Dev]

Krishna,

Yes there is originality in every singer but in my view if the heart is not opened, then it is just mundane. If we look at majority of artist's lives, there is not much resonance of that space.
I completely agree with you, unless it becomes just an art and display of intelligence when the bhakti aspect lacks.

But I consider every singer,artist as a form of celestial being or can say a Gandarva. There is something divine in them. But because it is just one aspect/channel, it cannot penetrate deep.
Yes, some divinity is there, since divinity is associated with music as such.

Since art/music is a special talent, it invariably gives a ego! only some fortunate ones can escape that. But each human being can experience that space if they can be in egoless state.
Yes, very well said. The music touches the heart only when there is bhakti and that bhakti or surrender towards lord is reflected in the music only when the artist surrenders himself to the lord. Otherwise as I said, it is display of intelligence. Music with bhakti would melt the heart of others and one and all but that with intelligence may be of value only to those who are well read in it, others may feel it boring itself.
So one should always try to go to egoless state.

As you say, artists actually develop ego. Some fix the rate for their music and do not compromise on them. Some have vices and some talk bad of other artists and so on. However, they do have exceptional talents but with all these in the side. If they didn't have these, they would have been even higher.

Once name and fame comes, people go behind all these, it is because there is inherent ego in them. See if they are in a situation where they cannot be flattered, no amount of flattery will work with them.

What I meant to say is becoming more spiritual for everyone is via their work or prayers or music are whatever which can help them. I am into science research but here there would definitely be ego clash and problems, even if I try to be away from them. But if I can sing music and if I dont develop ego, then it would help me to concentrate easily. Concentration power when developed is the main one necessary for reaching higher and higher state and so music can help me I said. Yoga expert would say yoga can help, for some mounvrat can help, and so on.

Dev

[Dev]

Hi All:

Inner growth is very essential for spiritual growth and external visibility or show off will not help.
I wanted to point out some of my views on this and would welcome reviews from all.

1. Anything that we do loudly or say loudly has limited power but that done in silence has
the real value as Ramanan had also mentioned. In this context, reciting slokas loudly has its own limitations. If the mind is in control and atleast few minutes of concentration can be achieved it would be better to say it in silence. Further what are the limitations of chanting loudly. Someone could say you make lot of mistakes, that may make you to even stop chanting. Some could say you are doing excellent job and that may inflate your ego. So all these are to be avoided and you don’t need any publicity, it is between you and your inner mind. In this context, I would like to say a few examples. You never say to your parents, I love you because it is internal and inherent. There is no show there, it is obvious, it is internal. It has more value than in outside where you say thank you, I love you and all that frequently.
Students generally nowdays read loudly. So their knowledge is also just on the surface, not deep. That is why they are able to score centum in maths but fail in IIT entrance or so. I was surprised to see even my neighbour doing Masters in Engineering read loudly. It means they are just by hearting and not trying to understand. Imagine when such students become doctors, engineers, scientists, professors, nurses and so on, what would be the fate of our citizens who go to them for help.
2. There are many small temples built here and there and everywhere by a few people collecting money and doing it. This can be seen all over Chennai, Delhi, Hyderabad and several cities. When the great and famous temples are not being cared for due to lack of funds, why all these show? Further, people do all sorts of things things near the temple, it is unfortunate to see all these. Also, is God only inside the temple, not anywhere else? Spiritually grown individuals do not require the form of God or a temple to do worship. Similarly on the walls near the roads, everywhere the pictures of Hindu deities are drawn and the public use those for dirty purposes. Then what happens to the sanctity of that picture? Sanctity of God remains but those who see these pictures as God are terribly hurt.
Why all these show? Who are those who do all these paintings and build small small temples which are not really cared for? Are they real worshippers of God? Whom are they trying to impress? All these bogus things will do them no good. It is better to maintain the existing temples and no need for these small ones. In fact one can afford to go a few miles to visit a temple, it is not needed that he should have them within 0.1 Km. May be he may have one built but can he find a place in God's heart, no, it is never going to be easy.

Sincerity, discipline and honesty alone would help one progress in the spiritual arena. All these are inherent in a person who can be in silence. It means he is in equilibrium with his inner self. He does not care for environment or acknowledgement from others nor is he affected by external noise. It is very easy to say but to practice silence is so hard. Could anyone of us see old people reading Gita or Mahabharata loudly? It is only when one is able to achieve enough concentration so that external forces are unable to influence him, he has really achieved some level of concentration which is the starting point or the first step towards spiritual growth.

Dev

[Dev]

Dear all:

This is a challenging chart foe expert astrologers:

5th feb 1962 ( male )
6.05 AM
delhi

11th house has 54 astavarga points I would welcome interpretation by experts.

Dev

[Dev]

Interestingly, if u see the above horoscope, all natural benefics moon, mercury, venus and jupiter(3 also being funtional benefics) are deep combust within 3 degrees. Also mars and sat are within one degree. There are lot of graha yudhas. However the person is running sani dasa, lagna lord's dasa, then budha which is of 9th lord.
Other points/ Interesting points are
-Moon is only 15 degrees away from sun
-Jupiter lord of 3 and 12 is the atmakaraka
-Mercury (6&9), jupiter, venus(5&10) and ketu are in mars nakshatra
-Moon, sun 8, saturn (1&2) in moon's (7) nakshatra
-Mars(4 & 11) in sun's(8) nakshatra
-rahu in budha's nakshatra
-3 natural benefics in mars nakshatra and mars is exalted.
-Jh indicates in planetary wars 5 wins(moon, mercury, venus, jupiter and ketu) and 5 losses( sun, moon, mercury, venus and ketu)
-4 grahas are common in win and loss, sun only loses and jupiter only gains
-Moon and Jupiter have low IP/KP values
-Sat has low astavarge of 2.
Moon in own nakshatra in good in spite of its afflictions, I feel.
I dont know how this can be interpreted with 54 points in the 11th house in astavarga.
Dev

[Dev]

Dear Ramanan:

That was nice. I hope I come across such a divine person too.

Dev