There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

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GNE
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There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by GNE » 26 Oct 2014

Hello all,
I've been wondering about ashtakavarga for a while now, when it comes to dictums like this one:

"To analyse in detail, if the points of lagna, 9th house and 11th house in the Sarva-Ashtakvarga chart are higher than that of 6th house, 8th house and 12th house then a successful life is assured for the native.
If 6th house, 8th house and 12th house are higher then life will be full of struggle without much success.
The lagna should be definitely higher than that of individually 6th, 8th or 12th house for a smoother life. "

(copy/pasted from a site. ...it's pretty much what ever book I've read and other websites say too)


now there's something wrong with this, I believe.

First noticed with my own chart where 6+8 have the highest points, way more than 9,10,11 and 1...
yet I need to strain myself to even think of any hurdles or struggles I've had...

I have one friend who has had perhaps the most struggle/obstacle filled life out of all people I know,
and his ashtakavarga points are such where lagna gets 46! and 6/8/12 are all under 25.
9,10,11 each have 30 ...

long story short, I've checked many other charts of both successful and unsuccessful people and noticed this ashtakavarga "rule" just doesn't work.
many celebrities who got early success and won awards, etc.. having super high 6-8, and many with even 12 being higher then 11th..

but mostly out of people I know who have 100% confirmed birthtimes, ...one friend from India, who is 38 years old and struggling, no career, no money, lives with parents in lower class..
he has 33 points in 10th house, 34 points in 11th and 29 in 12th. 31 in ascendant.
...according to ashtakavarga he should be doing very well, not to mention 33 in 10th house and yet he's had zero career ever really.

his 6 and 8th house are 27 then 22 respectively. ...so both "lower" than the positive houses and yet he's had nothing but struggle.

It makes me think that perhaps the mistranslation is that as far as 6-8 house goes, higher should mean more auspicious. As in LESS effects of those houses.
Me for example with 37 in 6th, yet in life I cannot even recall having one enemy, and not much struggle or need for hard work and overcoming obstacles to succeed. Also no illness really at all.


Anyway,
I could go on , but you get my point.

So does any one have any real information about the use of ashtakavarga when judging houses?

Im starting to believe it only has to do with transits, and the auspiciousness (or lack of) when a planet transits through a house with low or high points.

I see no connection between reading the inherent strength of a house through ashtakavarga points.
and 'rules' like:" If the total points of houses counting from 1st, 2nd, 4th, 9th, 10th and 11th comes above 170 then it is a good sign for the native to become rich"

It just hasn't worked for charts I've checked.

I have an uncle who's points total only 110, yet he has many luxuries, a huge house(mansion pretty much), and from what I've heard is worth 3-4 million dollars and has no debts.


if a rule only works say 3 out of 10 times. I say throw it out.
any opinions?
Last edited by GNE on 26 Oct 2014, edited 1 time in total.



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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakvarga...

Post by GNE » 26 Oct 2014

Another confusion I have is judging the points a planet gives to itself (the highlighted rasi in jhora) from 0-8 points.

I've noticed many celebrities have planets with low scores...a bunch of 2's and 3's...

Then I check my friend who isn't doing very well in life and his planets are full of 4-6's and one 7 rating too.

For everything else in astrology my mind is usually blown by how accurate it has been, but ashtakvarga has me scratching my head and feeling like there's something wrong....
my gut tells me it's mistranslated /misguided information put on many websites, and this is something that needs clarification from a real guru.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakvarga...

Post by GNE » 26 Oct 2014

Final question for now:

I noticed in Jhora, under the calculation options for ashtakvarga ...
there's a 2nd checkbox option for: "Consolidate houses from references when finding SAV(instead of signs)"

when I check this, the numbers change a bit, but just glancing at a few of the charts in question...the numbers seem to make a bit more sense using this option. (though I stand by that it still doesn't work the way those "rules" found on websites say. ie: every poor person I know should be wealthy, and every wealthy person should be struggling)

However tenth house for example for my career/jobless friend goes down to 26 points from 33.


Should this checkbox option in jhora be on?

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakvarga...

Post by rathore » 26 Oct 2014

With Vosi yoga for Sun by benefics, Durudhra for Moon with benefics, all except one benefics in kendra or trikona, all except one malefics in upachaya, most planets in benefic or vargottama navamsa, birth itself in a vargottama rising (auspicious birth) as well as rising degree mostly falling in benefic vargas and benefics in 10th etc. the macro Astrological factors are set to give a smoother life. Transits can cause nuisances here and there but if a hard time is not promised in the chart, then they are just that - nuisances.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by GNE » 26 Oct 2014

Thanks for the reply rathore, I was sort of hoping it would be you to reply. :)


I guess like you're hinting at, it is up to many factors in a chart.
Just confused me...seeing charts of successful celebrities for example, who had under 26 points in the tenth house, or low ascendant scores for actors...

Also I checked again and noticed almost every celebrity I checked (those with AA rodden rated birth times of course) had high points in the 6th house, often all higher than those in lagna / 11th..

Then I checked a few people I know who have had much struggle, or illness, and they have lower 6th house points (22-25) and higher in lagna (one had 40 points in lagna)


makes me think that the "rule" should be that with higher points in dushanta houses = more auspiciousness, since when a transit occurs in that house it would be "kinder" to the person? no? (ex: my saturn transit comnig up...into my 6th, but with 31 points + 4 points in saturn's own BAV.)


anyway,
thanks again for the reply. In the end, I'll take it like the SAV/BAV scores are just 1 factor...like having a negative yoga, however if a chart has say 5+ positive yogas for every 1 negative, then it's okay (generally...yes assuming they aren't heavily blemished,etc.)

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by rathore » 27 Oct 2014

From my readings on Ashtakvarga in classical texts, I don't remember seeing this rule of adding up points of certain houses to mean the person will be rich or poor. Which text are you quoting it from? I have read this on Internet & probably also in books authored by Astrologers so can't vouch for its authenticity unless I know the actual source, preferably with Sanskrit verses.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by GNE » 27 Oct 2014

I saw it in my PDF version of BPHS,
under "Ch. 72. Aggregational AshtakaVargas "

...not sure the page, my pdf doesn't have page numbers..

but you can google that BPHS "Ch. 72. Aggregational AshtakaVargas " and it should show up I think.
if not, let me know and I'll try to find something to send here.

I'm not sure how authentic anything is of course. I just read it and then went to test it out and noticed it wasn't working much at all...

I don't know the sanskrit verse... I only have this BPHS in english PDF I found on google. :)
Most was just stuff I saw on various websites/blogs, like this: http://jyotishvishesh.[NO EXTERNAL LINKS PLEASE].ca/2013/ ... tions.html
(though there are others too of course, I just don't feel the need to go find and post them all again)

again, not sure the authenticity...which is why I had to ask about the concepts here on this forum.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by rathore » 30 Oct 2014

I am not sure if this rule is in BPHS so will need its verse number to check. There is a rule talking about if 11th house has more points than 10th & less than 12th while lagna has highest points (something like that) then the person will have wealth. But it is not the like the one cited here where points of different houses have to be added up.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by GNE » 30 Oct 2014

Yeah, that rule too (the one you mentioned about if 11th house has more points than 10th & less than 12th while lagna has highest points (something like that) then the person will have wealth.) hasn't really checked out with all charts I've checked. Rich celebrities having 12th with more than lagna, or tied with 11th, or lagna having lowest points of the three..
but mostly, like this chart for instance:

*details removed for privacy*

friend of mine...not wealthy at all, still living with mom and has no income/savings, no real education or much to help with landing good work either... plus has been in debt for quite some time now.

His lagna has 40 points,
11th and 10th = 30, and 12th with 27...


There are others too...one uncle of mine who isn't very wealthy at all (most would say of lower class here in canada) has
26 points in 10th, 29 in 11th , 22 in 12h and 34 in lagna

strange.
So my guess is either there's something wrong/mistranslated with that principal.
or (more likely) it's just one thing..like having one good "dhan" planet placement in a chart...but it can be countered by having a stronger (or multiple) "poverty" yoga/placements.
Or vice versa...rich celebrity with more points in 12th than 11th, however their chart is full of dhan yogas and strong money placements/aspects between 2nd/9th,etc.
Last edited by GNE on 31 Oct 2014, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by rathore » 30 Oct 2014

Sensitive Yoga removed.

Also this is probably why the Ashtakvarga rule is not operating as much as it could (if its a real rule to begin with that is).
Last edited by rathore on 30 Oct 2014, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by GNE » 30 Oct 2014

*post reply on sensitive yoga removed* :)

but no worries, it wasn't very bad, and you explained other things around it beautifully.

thanks again for you reply
Last edited by GNE on 31 Oct 2014, edited 2 times in total.

rathore
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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by rathore » 30 Oct 2014

I have removed the Yoga now because its better for many people to just not know.

As its seen this 2-3 line Yoga simply describes the situation as-is. I can confidently say that out of all the Astrologers he has been to maybe one or two might have known about it, most must be performing gymnastics around everything else as would be evident from their "analysis".

"Enjoined" in the verse probably means that the person is not following the duties urged by the scriptures but it may also mean what you said. There are Yogas in his chart that makes him interested in Vedas & he should be skilled at the arts.

By the way this Yoga coming into fruition points out that "Bhava chart" is a questionable concept otherwise the Yoga should not have fructified. Also for zero Ayanamsa the Yoga is just not there, so raises question on that too. Just like this chart I have tested many many charts on these two (and other) concepts with real Yogas like this.

Rathore

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by GNE » 31 Oct 2014

True about the Bhava chart...I myself haven't really dove into studying it much, tend to ignore it as many things changed in charts I've checked, and those things were all what I found manifested in the person. Like you said about the chart here, if the planet shifted in bhava, the yoga wouldn't be.

He is very interested in arts, sadly he hasn't really tried himself at any particular art....a huge procrastinator. And tends to give up the minute he tries due to whatever work not being "perfect" right away.

His chart seems to have manifested as a large interest in art and beauty, loving to surround himself in fancy things, and he's always painting his room different colors and re-organizing furniture,etc. Also loves gardening or work outside,...he build his backyard deck for his mom...
(though it was after months of procrastination and eventually his mom had to almost threaten him to finish it. ha)

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by GNE » 31 Oct 2014

I figure I'd ask you this since you might know,
it's regarding a sloka in Vaidyanatha Dikshita's
JATAITA PARIJATA vol II

sorry for all caps, I copy/pasted the title from the book PDF.

I'm wondering if there's any truth (or if you've noticed these sloka's working)

on page 676, sloka 24.
it says :
If, at a person's birth, the Sun occupies a house which in the Ashtakavarga of Jupiter gers
the least number of benefic dots, the person born will be luckless
in that every undertaking for his benefit it will fail.
If Jupiter occupying the 6th, the 12th or the 8th bhava be associated with 5 or more benefic dots, the prson born will be long-lived, very opulent and victorious over his enemies.

I notice my friends sun has low points from jupiter.
Whereas I have a full 7 (well, full using jhora's default where 7 is max)


another is:

page 668, sloka 12.

When Saturn passes through an empty (void o{ figures) house in the Ashtakavargas of the Sun and other planets, he occasions on a large scale diseases, danger from enemies and other trouble to father and other relations whom the several planets represent.



Now I ask about these as they pertain to my friend's chart above.

Saturn is about to transit scorpio, which has 0 points in the Ashtakavarga of sun.

On the other side of things, would you think it could do the opposite (healing of diseases, and overall good things occuring in related to saturn/sun sorts of areas..) if the house had 7 points? (I ask because mine does...and while it was in libra I came down with bad eczema/dry skin that seems on it's way to healing..(got medicine from dermatologist last week).



This sort of ashtakavarga is different than what we spoke about above, and I'm wondering what your opinion on these techniques are.
(or anyone on the forum who cares to reply)

Thanks again!

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by rathore » 14 Nov 2014

Ashtakvarga is a mini system of predictions in itself so its more than transits. This is why such verses appear where derivations are made based on planet's position in a natal charts along with Ashtakavarga points.

Now the part that says if Saturn transits a sign with certain points = XY results, those results are felt heavily if the natal chart promises those results with supporting factors, otherwise not. Here even though Ashtakavarga points may seem to promise the result but an aspect of another planet in the natal chart or vedha at the time of transit or other strengths of the bhava or planet in question etc. will modify the results.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by PV1993 » 15 Nov 2014

Its not only about adding up points. One has to look at the planetary positions, aspects, shadabalas, bhavabalas etc.

I've also seen the site that GNE is referring. From that the most I can infer is that the points have been considered only on a general basis.

I think the Ashtakavarga system was developed to study transits given that points are added based on good planetary positions based on all references.

In my personal opinion having a strong SAV score for a house having no planetary influences at all strengthens the significations of the house. Why?

Because having a stronger SAV score means more planets are contributing points towards the house and their transits may be good but again we'll have to consider any planetary influences and I think divisional chart might also have a role to play in this but I'm not sure.

So if a person has like 40 points in 5th house with no planetary influence at all he may get benefits by the matters signified by the house but all this changes if malefics are sitting there or aspecting it, Divisional charts & dasas don't support it.

I am an amateur and my knowledge is limited at the best so I am not much qualified in these matters. It would help if someone can test what I've written.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by nbalakumar » 18 Aug 2017

each chart has benific planets and malefic. for an aquarius lagna mercury is lord of 8th and saturn is lord of 12th and Moon is the lord of 6th house. Now can you please calculate 2 new full ashtakavarga one summation of all the benifics to your lagna and another one with all the malefics for your lagna. Now see for a house summation of all the benifics is greater than summation of all the points by the malefics.

Hope this will help you ?

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by Dev » 03 Sep 2017

No it is not so. Irrespective of whether a planet is functional malefic or benefic, natural malefic or benefic, any planet with high astavarga will do good and also in the houses where its astavarga is high, it will do good, this is exactly what the rule says.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by Dev » 07 Sep 2017

total astavarga for saturn itself for 12 houses is only 39, so average is 3.2. So even if one has 3, it is good as compared to values of 3 for mercury or jupiter or venus being low.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by dhass.ak@gmail.com » 13 Dec 2017

Hi,

The Ashtakavarga points and its effects are predicted based on the numbers we get on each houses from Ascendant to 12th house respectively.

Houses with 25-28 bindus (Moderate), 28 and above (good and beneficial)

To calculate and predict the effect of any planets in the chart,try the below method and it works most of the time,let me know if this is not working.

Example 1 : If Moon Mahadasha is running,check for the number of bindus in moon's own house (Cancer) in Sarvashtakavarga chart. Let say 27 in Cancer and if the moon is placed in sagittarius with 21 bindus in the sign,then calculate it as (27+21) = 48/2 = 24 (bcz moon has only one own house and posited house,total is 2. So here in this Moon Mahadasha of 10 years the results will be less than average,with more mental worries and few good and positive results. Overall 24 means it is moderate.

Example 2 : If Mars Mahadasha is running,check for the number of bindus in Mar's own houses (Scorpio & Aries) in Sarvashtakavarga chart. Let say 30 in Scorpio & 31 in Aries and if the mars is placed in Libra with 40 bindus in the sign,then calculate it as (30+31+40) = 101/3 = 33.6~34 (bcz mars has two own houses and posited house,total is 3. So here in this Mars Mahadasha of 8 years the results will be good & beneficial,with less mental worries and more good and positive results. Overall 34 means it is good.

Apply the same for all Planets and Mahadashas and check for the time period which you experienced in the past gets applicable for the above method.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by Seeker108 » 13 Dec 2017

Sir what if the planet in own house? And how to calculate for rahu ketu nodes. Thank you.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by dhass.ak@gmail.com » 13 Dec 2017

Hi Seeker108,

If the planets are in their own house then the dividend number will be '2' not '3'

Example : Jupiter has 2 own houses (Sag & Pisc),if the planet seated in either of these 2 signs,then calculate it as Sarvashtakavarga score on Sagittarius (Let say 21) and Pisces (20),the final score will be (21+20)/2 = 41/2 = 20.5 which is below the average and how the results of this Jupiter Mahadasha will be for the person.

For Rahu and Ketu,they doesn't have any own houses and as a rule,both Rahu and Ketu acts accordingly to the house they sit.

If Rahu is in either of the houses of Venus,then calculate the SAV bindus of both the Venus houses + the house the Venus positioned in the birth chart and divide by 3

Example : Rahu seated in Taurus with SAV of 30, now the calculation for Rahu goes like this, Taurus '30' + Libra(Venus sign) with '40' and if Venus is in Sagittarius with '21' bindus,it arrives at (30+40+21)/3 = 30.3~ 30

So the outcome of this Rahu Mahadasha will be good. If you skip the Venus seated sign of Sagittarius in the above calculation and divide by '2' then answer will be few bindus difference.

The same applies for Ketu as well.

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by Rache » 13 Dec 2017

[quote=dhass.ak@[No Personal Contact Details on Public Forum].com post_id=248972 time=1513227742 user_id=18876]
Hi Seeker108,

If the planets are in their own house then the dividend number will be '2' not '3'

Example : Jupiter has 2 own houses (Sag & Pisc),if the planet seated in either of these 2 signs,then calculate it as Sarvashtakavarga score on Sagittarius (Let say 21) and Pisces (20),the final score will be (21+20)/2 = 41/2 = 20.5 which is below the average and how the results of this Jupiter Mahadasha will be for the person.

For Rahu and Ketu,they doesn't have any own houses and as a rule,both Rahu and Ketu acts accordingly to the house they sit.

If Rahu is in either of the houses of Venus,then calculate the SAV bindus of both the Venus houses + the house the Venus positioned in the birth chart and divide by 3

Example : Rahu seated in Taurus with SAV of 30, now the calculation for Rahu goes like this, Taurus '30' + Libra(Venus sign) with '40' and if Venus is in Sagittarius with '21' bindus,it arrives at (30+40+21)/3 = 30.3~ 30

So the outcome of this Rahu Mahadasha will be good. If you skip the Venus seated sign of Sagittarius in the above calculation and divide by '2' then answer will be few bindus difference.

The same applies for Ketu as well.
[/quote]

According to your theorem my every dasa and antardasha's result will be same 28-29, which isn't true, so I'm not quite sure about this theorem, bdw can you tell me what's the source behind these rules, are these rules mentioned in any of the classic books??

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by Dev » 25 Dec 2017

Hi dhass:
I dont think the rule is so straightforward. In fact I feel you have to consider so many other factors.
I had a dasa with 34 points which was not good mostly.
Dev

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Re: There's something wrong with Ashtakavarga...

Post by Atishdipankar » 04 Sep 2018

I feel the approach towards predicting a chart should me holistic, one need to see the KP Chart as well and the influence of the Nakshatra Lord and Sub Lord ...we need to check how the chart fares there. If lot of planets are influenced by their 11th house they will have gain in their lives, if 10th is influencing then they will come also come into limelight. I also feel Shadbala, Ishtaphala, and Vaisheshikamsa should be checked along with the main chart and Navamsa to come to any conclusion. If in any chart Atmakaraka sits in a dushthana in Navamsa inspite of great Ashtakvarga, the person will have a miserable life. AK is the King of the chart.

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