Retro planet in parivartan

For discussion on planets, houses, signs, nakshatras, etc.
Forum rules
READ Forum-Wide Rules and Guidelines NOTICE: OFFENSIVE POSTS WILL BE DELETED, AND OFFENDERS WILL HAVE ALL POSTS MODERATED.
Post Reply
Dashas
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 122
Joined: 24 Jan 2019

Retro planet in parivartan

Post by Dashas » 19 Sep 2019

Hello All

I have a simple question - when a planet is retro and in rashi parivartan (or nakshtra parivartan) at the same time, what is taken into account first? For example- let's say retro mercury in sagittarius and jupiter in virgo. In that case, would mercury behave like a retro mercury in virgo? (and hence, as a debilitated mercury, if we go by some school.of thoughts that retro exalted planet behave like debilitated).

Please throw some light on this.



iladevi19
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 91
Joined: 27 Jul 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by iladevi19 » 19 Sep 2019

That's why it is said a vargottama planet is good in giving solid results than an exalted planet or planet in parivarthana . Parivarthna or exaltation status some times could make a planet to give bad or untoward results .

User avatar
lefteye
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 300
Joined: 12 Apr 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by lefteye » 23 Sep 2019

Difficult to identify the outcome with one condition. Planets will not totally change their nature and give results wherever they are placed. In retro conditions their basic qualities do get affected to some extent. They make the natives a bit childish, if I am not exaggerating. They pronounce the results of previous houses,as a general rule. A retro planet in 9th house will pronounce the effects of 8th house. But if that planet is yogada planet,results will be altred to a greater degree to on positive side.

Dr. Subba Rao says that they show an inclination to their natural vedhaka planets. Example, Retro Saturn becomes friendly with Mars. It does well in Aries and Scorpio. Jupiter gets the qualities of Venus, Mercury gets that of Mars and Saturn gets the qualities of Mars,Mars to Mercury, Venus to Sun. When both the planets are in retro,their enmity is reduced and they become friends.

Parivartana can bring unexpected luck in some cases where all basic rules are complied to preserve the yoga results.

Three types in parivartana and two types of retro

Dainya Parivartan Yoga
Kahala Parivartan Yoga
Maha Parivartan Yoga
Retro of natural Malefics
Retro of natural benefics

Dainya Parivartan Yoga : When the exchange is between one auspicious and another negative house (6,8,12) then it is called Dainya Parivartan Yoga.Here dusthan house (6,8,12) lord will be much stronger cause of exchange and positive house lord will be weaker coz of association with the negative one. That will give the instability in life, lack of fortune, misery, and struggle in life; Trouble can be related to finance majorly.

Kahala Parivartan Yoga : When exchange happens between third and any other house lord of horoscope, then it is Kahala Parivartan Yoga. In short 3rd house involvement will have to be there in yoga causing planets.Third house represents courage, your effort, will power. Whenever third house gets activated in our chart we need to go through lots of hard work, put lots of self-effort. So Kahala Parivartan Yoga will make one to work a lot which may give a rise in life. Without making one to sweat or going through hard time this yoga will not let experience good time in life. This yoga works better in plotting, scheming, planning, and competing.

Maha Parivartan Yoga : When exchange takes place between any houses except 3rd and 6th,8th,12th houses then that is called Maha Parivartan Yoga. For example, 7th and 9th lord getting exchanged or 9th and 11th lord getting exchanged, where neither 3rd house nor any negative houses got included. In such exchange, both the houses and house lords get strengthen, provided neither of the yoga causing planets are getting debilitated or detriment. As both the house involved in this Parivartan Yoga are auspicious so the result of the yoga gives extreme rise in life of a person, with name, fame and wealth of course.

Retrograde benefics will give beneficial results and that of malefic will give not so good results.If a retro planet occupies exaltation house, it loses its strength fully. They get abnormal strength in houses of debilitation.
भव शंकर देशिक मे शरणम्

iladevi19
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 91
Joined: 27 Jul 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by iladevi19 » 23 Sep 2019

what about retrogression and vargottama ? A planet which is retrograde and vargottama becomes extremely powerful and in fact becomes the commander of the chart . That planet overtakes the significance of all other planets including lagna lord .

User avatar
lefteye
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 300
Joined: 12 Apr 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by lefteye » 24 Sep 2019

Let us look into the charts as a whole entity. There will be abrupt shortfalls/gaps in one bhava which we normally miss to read. Almost all planets tend to trouble us in one or the other way. This can be understood the karmic houses and their lords in natal. 1,5,9=sanchita 2,6,10 prarabdha. These 6 houses give an indication of the net outcome. The more strong the retro planet becomes the more troubles from that karakatwa/lordship. The point is to shield against the possible damages from a retro planet. It is important to check the ayana bala also.Ayanabala forms the psychology of a native.

Vargottama makes a retro planet stronger but it is a trap.Chesta bala increases and naturally mind becomes occupied with it. Retro status indicates the unfulfilled desires of previous birth. Like Atmakaraka. When chestabala increases by retro status, our handling becomes erratic w.r.t that karakatwa. If we have two planets having same chesta bala , one with retro status and another without retro, highest among others, the one without retro will give better results. We will handle that karakatwa better than the one with retro. Thus,a prior knowledge may be helpful for correcting our actions on the proper dealing.


Most of us wish, if we have a retroplanet, that it will give better results if it is an yoga karaka or 9th lord something like this. That is something like loving the shares we buy in secondary market. This reveals that that bhava is affected and we could not get much out of that bhava's karakatwa. What happens when a planet goes retro is something different.

Mars=Manipurka chakra gets blocked or becomes non functional. Balance,vision and energy get affected.Native gets flow of skewed logic but powerful. Person with Mars retro loves fighting for the sake of fighting.They won't give up easily.
Mercury=Mooladhara chakra gets blocked. Here native becomes too talkative or doesn't talk at all. Mercurian qualities will not be used by the native.
Jupiter=Visuddhi . This is the last bodily chakra and capable of segregating good and bad.Wisdom.When this gets blocked, natives suffer because of wrong decisions.
Venus=Swadhishtana-jala tattva.When blocked,native fails to enjoy the happiness.Spoils relationships as he/she is not aware of expressing love or affection.
Saturn=Anahata chakra gets blocked in retro condition. Fails to understand detachment. A common side effect will be becoming non-assertive or endlessly doing a job

All these traits may be seen in non retro cases too but that will be of negligible quantity.
भव शंकर देशिक मे शरणम्

tylorechandra
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 555
Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mysore --- Karnataka

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by tylorechandra » 25 Sep 2019

I do not subscribe to the views stated by Lefteye. From what I have observed over many charts, a retro planet becomes more powerful but its effect on the bhava where it is placed becomes dependent on another factor -- speed. The planet thus becomes unpredictable many times though when the speed is normal (but in retro motion), the planet gives very strong results.

TKC

Dashas
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 122
Joined: 24 Jan 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by Dashas » 25 Sep 2019

@tylorechandra, thank you for the wonderful insights. What is a normal speed for a retro planet? Could you please elaborate more on this. Thank you so much.

User avatar
lefteye
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 300
Joined: 12 Apr 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by lefteye » 25 Sep 2019

Seems that tylorechandra has not read the reply. I didn't deny the stronger effects or strength of a retro planet. But the results when a retro planet becomes exalted or detrimental are different. All authors agree on this point. I have noted the cases of known persons like relatives and friends who live nearby.They are not as harmful as planets in MKS which indicate total damage to the bhava they own and get posted.

The retro status is inauspicious. In longevity calculations,we take 50% of the years those planets contribute.

However giving guarantee to one single factor of retrograde to evaluate result needs attention. Seekers will live in hopes as I lived for years. It took almost my life time to realise that this one factor prediction is wrong. :lol:
भव शंकर देशिक मे शरणम्

tylorechandra
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 555
Joined: 12 Jul 2012
Location: Mysore --- Karnataka

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by tylorechandra » 25 Sep 2019

@Dashas,
Calculate the average speed @2.5 years (convert to days) per 30 degrees (convert to seconds) and you get the average speed. Faster, slower or stationary values can be easily seen in the present day softwares which give the speeds of planets on a daily basis as well. Else they can be manually calculated by noting the planet's motion over 24 hours.

@lefteye,

As far as I remember, there is no mention of additional reduction of contribution to Ayu by a retro planet. In fact in Pindayu, the retro planet gets exempted from such a reduction.

TKC

iladevi19
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 91
Joined: 27 Jul 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by iladevi19 » 25 Sep 2019

In one case , retrograde Saturn as 4th and 5th lord placed in 10th house in exchange with 10th lord MOON , had deprived the native of any job even though highly qualified and made the native to dedicate entire life to the son who is well qualified but lives the life of an ascetic with out any interest in mundane life .

ReformedVivek
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 60
Joined: 05 Feb 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by ReformedVivek » 25 Sep 2019

tylorechandra wrote:
25 Sep 2019
Faster, slower or stationary values can be easily seen in the present day softwares which give the speeds of planets on a daily basis as well.
Here it goes, when it is 25% of its original (average speed) speed or less than that, then it can be considered as a stationary state.
I am a student of astrology!

ॐ पराशर ऋषये नमः।🙇🏻🙏🏻
सर्वम् दक्षिणामूर्त्यपणमस्तु।💘 इति तत् सत्।

User avatar
lefteye
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 300
Joined: 12 Apr 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by lefteye » 26 Sep 2019

When Moon gets aspect from Saturn alone, and free from other planets' aspects the native will become an ascetic. If other benefics are supporting,he will become a powerful one. If other planets don't support ascetic life,native will be living a totally frustrated family life.
भव शंकर देशिक मे शरणम्

iladevi19
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 91
Joined: 27 Jul 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by iladevi19 » 27 Sep 2019

When moon is in exchange with Saturn or associated with SATURN in other ways then also gives disturbed family life as moon is manah karaka .

User avatar
lefteye
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 300
Joined: 12 Apr 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by lefteye » 28 Sep 2019

For this combination, the natives will be mentally matured than others. If Jupiter aspects this, the result will be good. KP stresses on this as Punarpoo but it gives some 4 or 5 exceptions to this. Again almost, all bhavas/planets are linked. That is a good concept KP teaches. Though KP claims more accuracy, many intelligent people follow this, with due regards and respects to Professor Sri. KSK, the failure to explain the logic of fixing ruling planets with natal chart in birth time rectification and the umpteen number of changes this system is getting after the founder’s demise do raise doubts on reliability. It doesn’t follow the basic rule of fixing lagna in bhava madhyama and it takes lagna at the starting point.

All planets work together to decide the net result/course of direction of life for the native. Out of the 40 samskara,marriage is one. Karmas loom around the native since the time of conception.

Marriage is decided by some other factors also. Upapada in D1 signifies the condition of marriage as a whole. 7th lord is also taken for consideration to determine the counters of positive and negative characteristics of the spouse which can be seen from navamsa. Upapada’s role is vital in marriage. Rahu-Saturn combination is playing a passive sabotage in married life when one doesn’t run their periods and the natives will miss to identify the damage done. This role becomes active and extremely painful during their periods. It is the second highest dangerous reason for marital issues – next to manglik dosha.

All rules seem to be superseded by a single dictum in terms of their positive or negative contributions whatsoever be their lordship in D1. Navamsa dispositor ,if found placed auspiciously, that will do more good to the native. 36th,64th,72nd and 96th navmsas from Moon are dangerous and show destruction-if malefic transit in these signs. This rule can be extended to the natal placements as well. If the planets deciding marriage or posted in the above padas and /or 22nd drekkana in Parashari & Somnath drekkana troubles can be expected in married life. If native gets delay in marriage , these factors may also contribute. We have to consider the effect of Moola dasa, badaka planet aspects position of lord of lagna of D7, Dignity of 7th lord of D1 in D30 etc. A spoiled marriage in chart will be reflected in all these aspects.

Pt.Sanjay Rath states that getting atmakaraka debilitated in navamsa represents a fallen soul.This will bring in more troubles for the native.
भव शंकर देशिक मे शरणम्

lightray94
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 198
Joined: 16 Mar 2016

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by lightray94 » 09 Oct 2019

lefteye wrote:
26 Sep 2019
When Moon gets aspect from Saturn alone, and free from other planets' aspects the native will become an ascetic. If other benefics are supporting,he will become a powerful one. If other planets don't support ascetic life,native will be living a totally frustrated family life.
I confirm the first part at least for me.
Thanks and Regards,
Lightray94

Dashas
Contributor
Contributor
Posts: 122
Joined: 24 Jan 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by Dashas » 12 Nov 2019

@lefteye sir, you mentioned above 'more strong the retro planet becomes the more troubles from that karakatwa/lordship'. Is this true even in case the retro planet is lagna lord (and hence most benefic planet for that chart)? For example, for sagittarius ascendant, if retro jupiter is placed in pisces, would it make the lagna lord extremely strong and capable of doing good or just make it worse?

User avatar
lefteye
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 300
Joined: 12 Apr 2019

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by lefteye » 18 Nov 2019

@Dashas
Shadbala and Avesta decide the strength of the planet. It should be free from the clutches of bad combinations with malefics or upagrahas. Navamsa sign position should not be in 6-8 or 2-12 positions. It should not be related to 64th navamsa or 22nd drekkana. Then it becomes fully capable of delivering good results. Still, being a benefic owning 4th house, it suffers kendradhipati dosha.So the good results will not be 100% but will be around 80 to 90%.
By doing regular prayers for Jupiter, this deficiency may be compensated.
भव शंकर देशिक मे शरणम्

Dev
Frequent Contributor
Frequent Contributor
Posts: 3840
Joined: 17 May 2010

Re: Retro planet in parivartan

Post by Dev » 24 Nov 2019

What would be the cumulative effect of a planet which is retrograde, also atmakaraka, yogada planet and also 8th and 11th lord in the star of lagna lord and 6th lord and exalted in navamsa?

Post Reply