Vipareeta Raja Yoga doubts

[Nora]

Dear Astro Gurus

There is some confusion about VRY, first of all is this a modern invention or mentioned by sages in ancient astrological texts?

Secondly, there seems to be three types of VRY - Harsha, Sarala and Vimala - what's the difference and which of the 3 is the best?

Thirdly, I've read that this Yoga mostly gives negative and only some positive. That is, it seems very positive at first but over long term it's results are very negative. Is this this true?

Fourthly, what if someone wears the gemstone of a planet that is giving VRY in its dasha. What will happen then? Any experiences?

Kind regards

Nora

[Nora]

Also, another doubt, is VRY weakened by conjunction or aspect of a planet? If so why and how?

[tandav]

This is the yoga where the native benefits from someone else's fall. I would not suggest anyone to look forward to yoga like this to activate. You're planning your own bad karma.

Karma overrides any yoga we have in our charts. If you deliberately cause someones fall for your own benefit, you will face karma whether you have this yoga or not. So dont think you can get away with a VRY.

Many astrologers have told me that I also have this yoga but after learning about it, i have decided to ignore it. I can create success and opportunities for myself without harming anyone. In fact, I can make more than VRY can give me. I feel very certain about that.

[Nora]

This is the yoga where the native benefits from someone else's fall. I would not suggest anyone to look forward to yoga like this to activate. You're planning your own bad karma.

Karma overrides any yoga we have in our charts. If you deliberately cause someones fall for your own benefit, you will face karma whether you have this yoga or not. So dont think you can get away with a VRY.

Many astrologers have told me that I also have this yoga but after learning about it, i have decided to ignore it. I can create success and opportunities for myself without harming anyone. In fact, I can make more than VRY can give me. I feel very certain about that.

Hi Tandav

Thanks for the info. Sure I had read about it on websites. But I have some doubts. First of all, I doubt whether there is any way of strengthening this Yoga, since the idea of VRY is that the planet should be debilitated twice and two negatives make a poisitive. So, I think that no fool will wear a gemstone or try to strengthen the planet of VRY. Since doing so will only lead to more problems both for himself/herself and for the other person who will suffer losses for the native to gain.

But I also find this Yoga somewhat tricky cos how do we know who will suffer loss ? If there was a way to know it beforehand, then at least the loss for the other person can be prevented. It's possible that some may know it but in most VRY the native himself or herself doesn't know when and how it'll happen. Like, in other yogas it's fairly simple cos it can be at least predicted when it'll happen etc. But this is one yoga which is quite unpredictable in that sense for the native as well as for those around the native. I feel that there will be only a few natives who would purposely want to gain over the downfall of others. Like you said, this will only invite negative karma if they accept such a rise intentionally.

But there is no way of predicting whose downfall will occur and when. In my view, this yoga can only be known retrospectively, and not on the spot realisation like the other Yogas. Which is why, I got curious to get some more info on it.

And the other thing is that, maybe just maybe the downfall of the other is also part of destiny, then we can do nothing about it. Cos, if it was part of one' freewill then naturally God would have ensured that the native realises that the downfall of the other was going to happen, and in most cases it'll be predictable and preventable. But it doesn't seem to be the case.

I think I read an example on internet somewhere, where an astrologer had written, an example of VRY - during demonitization in India recently, a woman, who had saved a lot of money (unaccountable) was forced to give this money to her family. Then suddenly overnight demonitisation was announced and it ended up being VRY for the woman, since the woman would've had a hard time to show the accountability of the money to the authorities. So, in a way she did lose the money but she didn't actually lose it cos she used the money on her own family. Now, one could argue whether the son or daughter on whom she spent this money had a VRY cos they received this money on the downfall of their mother. Or the woman (mother of the children) had VRY we don't know.

Kind regards

Nora

[Thrawn]

VRY is one of the many modern myths in Jyotish. Planets give results according to the houses they rule and the houses they are situated in. The results of such combinations were described by Parashara in the chapter about the effects of bhava lords. E.g. 6th lord in the 12th house: the native will always spend on vices, be hostile to learned people and will torture living beings. Or 12th lord in the 12th house: the native will face only heavy expenditure, will not have physical felicity, be irritable and spiteful.

[Dev]

I dont think anyone could plan for VRY. It happens on its own without anyone looking forward to it. May be when Rajiv Gandhi became PM?
Also when some a head of dept suddenly is gone, then his next in seniority would become HOD or even a junior could be made if he refuses to take up the same due to different reasons. Then being in the post of HOD, it is likely that the junior or whoever could misuse it for his own benefit. It is a sin for sure but a sin that is being done by at least 90% people if not more.

[Nora]

Hi Dev

How can we assume that VRY is always sinful. That's were my doubt is. Suppose as per your example, the young teacher becomes HOD due to the senior teacher refusing it for some reason let's say...then is it always that the ting teacher will misuse this post? It could be that he works hard and helps the students in new ways that the older HOD perhaps couldn't. Why do we have to assume that VRY is always sinful just cos it comes at the cost of someone else's loss, which may very well be in that loser's destiny as much as it is the gainer's destiny to gain.

Correct me if I'm wrong...I'm just a learner here

[Nora]

VRY is one of the many modern myths in Jyotish. Planets give results according to the houses they rule and the houses they are situated in. The results of such combinations were described by Parashara in the chapter about the effects of bhava lords. E.g. 6th lord in the 12th house: the native will always spend on vices, be hostile to learned people and will torture living beings. Or 12th lord in the 12th house: the native will face only heavy expenditure, will not have physical felicity, be irritable and spiteful.

Hi thrawn

Thanks for the feedback. Please go through my msgs (also the recent one on this thread) and tell me your view.?

Also, what does it mean to have 12th lord in 8th..? What problems would that create?

And like I said I'm not sure I agteee that VRY is sinful etc..it may be modern day invention that I'm not sure cos like I said I'm just a beginner learner of astrology...but even if it old or new, why call it bad?

[Nora]

Also guys tell me what it means to have the planet causing the VRY in retrograde in the natal chart?

[Dev]

Nora:

You did not understand what I said.
I am not saying VRY is sinful. On the contrary noone will anticipate that something is going to happen to senior and he is going to become leader. What I said was anyone who becomes a leader even in the normal way is not honest enough these days and so also, one who has become one due to VRY. He did not plan but after becoming he like the normal leader too becomes corrupt and dishonest.
I contradicted what the other person said, saying noone plans that he is going to have VRY and then he can do harm to others.It is because they do not know astrology. Even without VRY many wait to harm others.

[wanderingSteps]

Hi Nora
To the following point of yours " I feel that there will be only a few natives who would purposely want to gain over the downfall of others. Like you said, this will only invite negative karma if they accept such a rise intentionally. ", quite honestly you seem to ignore something that is widely prevalent. Good natives, for sure do not want things like that. But i am living example of having faced the situation where everyone around me wants me to fall.

And even when i express the same to them/ their concerned, everyone understands this tendency, but they do not help in any way, shape or form. So i have to find a way myself to deal with it. Most of the times, there is no other way available, because the entire world seemed to working on the principle where they contribute to not liking supporting/ allowing their growth, and wish that the one who is growing despite all odds, fall.

I just want to express that you said something as a guru/ a researcher/ a person who claims to have vast knowledge. But many of us who feel hopeless, and that is the main reason we seek astrological help, feels worse at the above comment of yours.

In fact, I used to think exactly like the way you said, only to then face 7 years of Ketu to realize the opposite exists, and a lesson that one should accept that the negative side exists.

Either your belief is really innocent, or otherwise, you are enthusiastic, to explore a new topic you have come upon. But try looking at it from the opposite side, when you would be needing some direction and someone else tells you like 'there is no evil that exists'.

[Nora]

lol true Dev. But some leaders may not be corrupt. Only some though...

[Dev]

I dont say everyone is bad. If that were to be true, the kali should have ended and there wouldnt have been rain at all. But very few are good and majority is bad in general.

[wanderingSteps]

And hence the request to the newbbie, wanna bie astrology practitioners/ learners, to not have their enthusiasm go to extreme and inherently and knowingly denying the facts, just because they have a forum to work with them to grow and test their astrology knowledge. It is quite honestly being rude and irresponsible, and knowingly so.

[Nora]

Hi wandering steps....thanks for the reply...I'm not questioning your belief or anyone else's belief and/or experiences here. I just wanted to know that primarily the info on all sites on VRY claims that it's a gain over someone else's fall. This to me sounded very negative. So, I wanted to know if at all there is any positive side to it for instance, the person gaining may not even be aware of the fact that he is gaining from someone else's loss, so then is this the destiny of the loser to lose and the gainer to gain. Maybe some debtvthe loser owed the gainer in a previous life.

Of course, there are a lot of people with negative thinking and negative intentions in this world as this is the Kali Yuga. So, I wouldn't be surprised that many are using this VRY in their favour even but I just wanted to know that other side of VRY like you said. Because as a student of astrology one needs to see the laws and theories holistically. If it's bad is it always bad? If it's good is it always good? What are the exceptions and why? That's all I'm interested to know. Neither being naive nor being optimistic nor being rude. And I can't recall stating anywhere in my text that I know astrology. This is student section and I'm just posting a genuine doubt. Sorry if it hurt anyone.

Kind regards

Nora

[Dev]

There are even people who think that if they are in line for a position, they would be happy to see the senior go away - transfer or voluntary retirement or whatever. They may know nothing about VRY.
Sometimes even normal people may think so if the boss is troublesome.
And in kali yuga many may think so for their own benefit and selfishness and they may be unaware of the existence of such a yoga.
If at all someone is told about possibility of VRY by an astrologer, I am sure many would want the yoga to fructify so that they get benefit even if it is at the expense of downfall of another. Even normal people may do so. This is kali yuga.
Anyway, VRY may indicate the two are related in their past births.

[Nora]

I get that Dev. Thanks for the info.

[wanderingSteps]

Thanks Nora. I understand what you are saying.

And probably we were meant to have that disagreement just to me then give some data which may help in your quest.

I think, by the someone described Vipreet Raj Yoga, i have the same in my chart. 8th lord (Sun) and 12th (Jupiter) Lord together in a particular house.
And yes, the following comment of your, are cent percent true for me, and hence my pain over what i expressed before. But i guess i am clear now, and i understand you also now.

"So, I wanted to know if at all there is any positive side to it for instance, the person gaining may not even be aware of the fact that he is gaining from someone else's loss, so then is this the destiny of the loser to lose and the gainer to gain. Maybe some debtvthe loser owed the gainer in a previous life. "

I have realized years later, only when forced to think how it happened to realize i had gain few things as though somebody owed it to me. 1 particular project in my profession that lasted 1.5 years. For first 4 months of the project, I didn't work under this person call, say, XYZ. The rest of time I did. The project went very well. I was told 'you have done an extraordinary work' by those who had hired me (say ABC) in the first place (not XYZ). XYZ too said something like 'i hold you in high regards'. But then, things started to change, and to my unawareness, after 15-16 months into the project. XYZ had already strategized in a way to have ABC's (note ABC was very very senior to XYZ and also 10-15 or so years younger in age) objectives not cared for. XYZ got all the information under him, but did nothing. Absolutely nothing. Sat at home and gave an official reason for sitting at home and not coming to office. The entire portfolio of projects that was running for then-last 5 years came to a fall. ABC had to look for another job, he was a Director. I was the last 5 folks to go.
XYZ asked me then something illgeit. I refused. He again found a chance, the moment ABC left to let me go.

Now, all this while i never knew there was a court case XYZ was involved in. Something really fishy he had done. And only because of that i was able to have the space to work.
You see my point?

I also have other yogas in my chart that help me in general. Hope this has added to your research.

[vedicmaths]

hello nora,

A typical example for VRY is that of Shri. Narasimha rao, who became the prime minister of India.
He was to retire from politics in 1990, but suddenly the whole scenario changed after the death of
Shri. Rajiv Gandhi. The rest is history.

https://www.thehindu.com/opinion/op-ed/ ... 592050.ece

truly yours,
vedicmaths

[Nora]

Exactly Vedic maths. Just the kinda example I was looking for. Now, did Shri Narasimha rao predict that Shri Rajiv Gandhi would die and that he'd be asked to take charge of the office? No!

Did he wish that it'd happen? No!

So, that's exactly the point I was trying to understand about VRY. It's unpredictable and seems like in most cases itll be destiny of the two people involved rather than freewill. But those who've had a difficult life or have come out of bad Mahadashas and have suffered due to such a loss will obviously have a different view on this. Maybe they think that it's the freewill of the gainer and they feel cheated, which is understandable.

[Dev]

That was exactly what I said and meant. Sometimes it happens and is a surprise to the person who gets elevated in his position. He has no idea of the happenings and he is just like a puppet.

[vedicmaths]

hello nora,

Though the example cited above fits in fully, it would be better if we can find such charts
among the common people to understand even more.

truly yours,
vedicmaths

[Nora]

Hey Vedic maths

I get what you're saying. Is there any way in astrology to prove two people are related karmically to one another? Like if we get two charts but we didn't know anything about them and their relation , could planetary positions tell us how they are linked to each other ? Only then could we prove something like VRY but also other things in astrology, right?

[Dev]

Probably the interconnection could be proved but usually it is difficult to get the two horoscopes unless the two are friendly or if one of them is a very popular person like Indra Gandhi or Modi. Otherwise, one who has been benefited cannot ask the other one for his horoscope since the latter could ask - "were you waiting for my downfall"?

[vedicmaths]

hello nora,

Vipareeta has many meanings.. it could mean reversal. unfavourable, opposite and inverse.

Sage Jaimini has asked to do " reversing " when it comes to ketu.

It need not mean that one gets a windfall at the cost of some one. It just means, it comes
out of the blue. It could also mean because of inheritance.

But in the case of inheritance, the native would have already been in line for succession.

The strength of the yoga may quantify the windfall. I don't think two people are always needed for
the yoga to work.

truly yours,
vedicmaths