Weakness of exalted benefics

[VioletTwilight]

Dear Learned Members,

It is said that exaltation of benefics in Kendra is better than being in own sign since the minor dosha due to "kendraadipatya" (ruling a kendra) will be mitigated by this.

Especially, exalted Jupiter in lagna is supposedly a cure for many ills in a chart. However, a curious fact about exaltation of highest benefics, Jupiter and Venus, is that their moolatrikona houses will end up being in dustanas from the exalted house.

For example, if Jupiter is in Cancer, Sagittarius is 6th house from Cancer. So, Jupiter will be in 8th house from his own moolatrikona. Similarly, when Venus is exalted in Pisces, Libra is in 8th house from it. Again, Venus will be in 6th house from his own moolatrikona.

So, I wonder how to weigh the advantage of having exalted benefics with respect to them being in dustanas from their own houses and unable to support their house significations. I look forward to the input of the jyotish-learners and experts.

Best regards,
Violet

[basab14]

Violet,

In my opinion, mooltrikona sign of Jupiter and Venus when exalted, falling in the 6th or 8th house will not lessen the good effects they can give if they are well placed and well lorded and well aspected because the writers of the astrology rules in their astrology classics would have otherwise mentioned some negative results, too, for them when writing about them, knowing very well that the mooltrikona signs fall in the 6th or 8th house from their exaltation signs.

[elipsis]

Kendradipati dosha doesn't apply to Sagittarius and Pisces because Mercury behaves as functional neutral for these signs. This is one of the parasara's exceptions.

For cancer - Jupiter owns a higher house which happens to be a trine therefore it becomes benefic due to its natural affinity towards 5th and the 9th house.

For Pisces, Venus is super malefic in the ascendant.
-----
Exaltation really means when a planet overpowers a house it is supposed to turn on the owner of that house. So for any exaltation to bear fruit the owner of that house must reside in positive signs. This doesn't apply to Mercury as he gets exalted in his own sign.

Again there are exceptions to this rule as well, for aslesha - exalted jupiter will mostly likely ruin the life of the native. And for Poorva Phalguini, exalted Jupiter can destroy the wealth.

[VioletTwilight]

Exaltation really means when a planet overpowers a house it is supposed to turn on the owner of that house. So for any exaltation to bear fruit the owner of that house must reside in positive signs. This doesn't apply to Mercury as he gets exalted in his own sign.

Dear elipsis,

Exaltation will make the current status of the planet happy. I agree that the house lord must be in a good place so that he takes care of the house.

Instead of looking at the effect of Jupiter to Cancer lagna, I am wondering from the significations of Sagittarius itself. It's lord is exalted but placed in 8th from self. So, how does it influence of effects of Sagittarius or 6th house? Would it cause hidden or sudden enemies? Would the debts be big? Are there magnifying effects of 6th house?

Sagittarius being moolatrikona house of Jupiter shows where Guru 'works' best. So, following tradition, one's gurus etc. But with Jupiter in 8th from Sagittarius, how does one interpret? Does this mean the native won't have beneficial gurus?

I would like to see the same with Venus in Pisces. But I interpret it to mean, having Goddess Lakshmi on one's head is not good (as she is fickle and goes away) and having money near thighs as good (then She stays). It would mean, 9th house (Kalapurusha's thighs) exalted Venus as the best (as Lord Sri Rama has it), followed by 5th house as those are Lakshmi sthanas.

Best regards,
Violet

[VioletTwilight]

Violet,

In my opinion, mooltrikona sign of Jupiter and Venus when exalted, falling in the 6th or 8th house will not lessen the good effects they can give if they are well placed and well lorded and well aspected because the writers of the astrology rules in their astrology classics would have otherwise mentioned some negative results, too, for them when writing about them, knowing very well that the mooltrikona signs fall in the 6th or 8th house from their exaltation signs.

Dear Yellow,

Perhaps they assumed that the weaknesses are not worth mentioning compared to the strength in exaltation. There are so many principles that are contradictory in Jyotish that one has to look deeper to understand (otherwise, things like 'Kendradipati dosha' doesn't make sense in contrast to having 'Mahapurusha yoga' with own house benefic in kendra. The loss from the first dosha is minor compared to the strength from the second yoga).

So, I am only trying to understand which way the effect will work. Even the best chart will have some downsides, even the best people will have some downsides depending on how we look. (For example, Swamy Vivekananda was a great spiritual leader, but he died early and left no children. From one point of view, it is great chart giving great influence and fame (We are still thinking about him). From commoner point of view, one won't want that kind of chart for their own kids).

Perhaps, you can think of it as a 'blemish on the face of moon'?

Best regards,
Violet

[elipsis]

Sagittarius being moolatrikona house of Jupiter shows where Guru 'works' best. So, following tradition, one's gurus etc. But with Jupiter in 8th from Sagittarius, how does one interpret? Does this mean the native won't have beneficial gurus?

I would like to see the same with Venus in Pisces. But I interpret it to mean, having Goddess Lakshmi on one's head is not good (as she is fickle and goes away) and having money near thighs as good (then She stays). It would mean, 9th house (Kalapurusha's thighs) exalted Venus as the best (as Lord Sri Rama has it), followed by 5th house as those are Lakshmi sthanas.

Best regards,
Violet

Exalted Jupiter in the 8th creates one of the worst yogas called "gohanta yoga" so it is supposed to be bad - affecting the health and making the native lose his character- that's what 8th house really means, it pushes the native to do something which against the nature of the ascendant.

Jupiter must either reside in a trine or a quadrant for Sagittarius ascendant otherwise it totally loses its significance.

For cancer ascendant, exalted Venus in the 9th gives positve results. If you look at bobby fischer's chart - he has cancer ascendant with exalted 4th and 5th lord and a strong d24 making him extremely intelligent with over 190 iq or maybe a little too intelligent for his own good.

Although this strictly isn't vedic astrology, my teacher has always said exalted planets, especially Jupiter causes more trouble than you can possibly imagine. This is because planets like Sun, Venus and Jupiter aren't really equipped to handle the first quarter of kaliyuga, its totally against their nature. You take a look at whats really going on - you see fake gurus, fake artists, fake rulers and even fake astrologers. The planets that were once famous for their extraordinary deeds are no longer effective in the present time. What you actually see is a very mild essence and cannot be attributed to their real qualities. So people may look successful or famous but its not because of Jupiter or Venus.

[ChandraLagna]

Although this strictly isn't vedic astrology, my teacher has always said exalted planets, especially Jupiter causes more trouble than you can possibly imagine.

Wholeheartedly agree. This has been my observation too.

[basab14]

Violet,

I have got your point. It's a difficult question you have asked, and someone with a deep knowledge on the subject can only answer it.

Dear Yellow,

Perhaps they assumed that the weaknesses are not worth mentioning compared to the strength in exaltation. There are so many principles that are contradictory in Jyotish that one has to look deeper to understand (otherwise, things like 'Kendradipati dosha' doesn't make sense in contrast to having 'Mahapurusha yoga' with own house benefic in kendra. The loss from the first dosha is minor compared to the strength from the second yoga).

So, I am only trying to understand which way the effect will work. Even the best chart will have some downsides, even the best people will have some downsides depending on how we look. (For example, Swamy Vivekananda was a great spiritual leader, but he died early and left no children. From one point of view, it is great chart giving great influence and fame (We are still thinking about him). From commoner point of view, one won't want that kind of chart for their own kids).

Perhaps, you can think of it as a 'blemish on the face of moon'?

Best regards,
Violet

[milredr]

Yup I share the same sentiments with regards to Jupiter. Haven't observed the others. It was astroboy who kept telling me this. Post that we have analysed several charts nd the conclusion has been the same. Jupiter has destroyed marriages career etc in its dasha. His famous line "so much for an exalted or natural benefic Jupiter". However it strictly depends on which house Jupiter owns. I have a chart for cancer asc. Jupiter exalted in the lagna, mars is mooltrikon nd running the mars dasa. This person has always invariably struggled to hold a job. He is just plain unlucky. Pl note jup owns 6th house of service. However an exalted jup has never made him struggle because he dint have a job. Either his parents took care of him or currently his wife. He is 46 years old, jobless stays in a beautiful villa nd the calmest sensible guy I have met.

[anuradha]

If possible pl post his birth details. SH V.P Singh, former prime minster of India, 25-06-1931, 7-51 a.m, Allahabad, U.P. Exalted and vargottama Jupiter in Lagna. Mr Bachchan exalted and Vargottama Jupiter in 6H. V. Shehwag, exalted Jupiter in 12H. Sh K.N Rao ji exalted Jupiter in 10H, he is a retired I.A.A.S officer and a great astrologer. regards

[basab14]

Dunno, if it's always true that a strong Jupiter doesn't give good results in the material world because someone I know very well has Cancer ascendant with Jupiter exalted in ascendant with Venus. His is a rags-to-riches story. He was nothing at one point. Was poor in studies and had failed in class 10, I guess, and somehow passed class 12 with a third division and left studies after that. His family was in a very poor financial condition. They didn't have enough money to have a proper meal. He used to sit at home and do nothing even then and waited for things to turn around as it was predicted for him by a very reputed astrologer and also by my father (who knows astrology) that he would be a big success one day because he has Jupiter exalted in his ascendant.

He was offered jobs by his relatives but he didn't join them as he said that he would not take anyone's help. He took a 1 lakh rupees loan from one of his relatives (he returned the money to the person later on when he started earning) and did NIIT computer course after that, and the first job he got I think was in World Bank! And then, he worked in Discovery Channel and Home TV and and then in Nasscom (IT company), interacting with the big shots there, who all loved him. He became very successful and is very rich now. He who didn't have enough money for having proper meals now wears Rolex watches, which costs more than a lakh. He does work for some website now and most of his work is from home but he earns well even now because his life style is very affluent even now.

He struggled in the first half of Venus period. He said his life turned around in the Venus-Jupiter period (Jupiter exalted in ascendant). He has never taken credit for his achievements and says it's all destiny. He always tells me when time comes, everything turns good and before that, how much you may try, nothing works. He says he is a living example of that as he depended wholly on his exalted Jupiter when he was nothing, and that Jupiter didn't disappoint him and turned his life around in a matter of a few years. No one had expected him to be anything, and he proved everyone wrong by being a big success in life. His story is like one the ones we see in movies.

[basab14]

Anuradha ji,

I agree with you because I have seen charts of people with exalted Jupiter doing well in their careers. My cousin brother has exalted Jupiter in the 12th house, and he is running the period of Jupiter now. He is doing quite well in his career in this period. My uncle has exalted Jupiter in the 10th house, and though he struggled in the Jupiter period in the first half, he has been successful in his career as a government officer and reached a good position in his office.

If possible pl post his birth details. SH V.P Singh, former prime minster of India, 25-06-1931, 7-51 a.m, Allahabad, U.P. Exalted and vargottama Jupiter in Lagna. Mr Bachchan exalted and Vargottama Jupiter in 6H. V. Shehwag, exalted Jupiter in 12H. Sh K.N Rao ji exalted Jupiter in 10H, he is a retired I.A.A.S officer and a great astrologer. regards

[milredr]

Also forgot to mention, depends on the lagna and the nakshatra in which guru is. Anu can't post here. Will send it by PM.

[swamykool]

Hi violet twilight,

Actually what I have seen is that where a planet is from its MT house (any planet) does not matter at all. MT house matters only if the concerned planet is posited there.

There is also another theory, which I use extensively. That is a planet gives the results of its Nk Lord. So its very imp to to check the relationship of that planet with its Nk L and the condition and position of the Nk L. Same works with Rashi Ls but to a lesser extent.

For eg, take Jupi as exalted. Cancer has 3 Nks, Punarvasu (Jupi), Pushya (Shani) and Ashlesha (Mer). Exalted Jupi is most excellently posited in Punr, his own Nk.

In Pushya the natural relation with Shani is neutral (sama), so it becomes very imp to check the compound relation (panchadha maitri). If the compound relation is good, then its good to begin with.

In ashlesha Jupi is natural in a bad relation with Mer (mer hates Jupi), even the best panchadha maitri cannot rise better than neutral (sama), so its going to be troublesome. Also the last 3 degs of Ashlesha are Gandanta degs.

Next comes the question of certain degrees. A planet is only in full exaltation within certain degrees in a rashi, rest of the rashi his strength is that of MT.

Then comes the position and condition of the Nk Lord. That will eventually determine how the exalted planet will perform.

There is also another dictum from Agastya Nadi. It is controversial but I have used it extensively and very successfully. It says unless there is a planet deb or retro, in the rashi chart or in the Nav, an exalted planet doesn't function as exalted and displays only ordinary strength. Best is to have the deb and retro in the rashi chart. If only in Nav - good things start happening only from mid -life, i,e, late 40s or early 50's.

I have seen many charts where there are 2-3 planets exalted but no planet deb or retro. Very ordinary life, comfortable but just that, nothing more.

Then there are diff yogas and many many more things...

SK

[milredr]

Hi Anu,

Just 3 pointers:

Vp singh suffered from kidney disease and bone marrow cancer all his life
Amitabh Bacchan has myasthenia gravis since 25 years.....still have nervous illnesses
K N Rao never married or had children.

[milredr]

Also i remember this post of Astroboy. Pl see the link below:

http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/ph ... 42&t=12845

Swamykool check the above. Thats exactly what Deepak had mentioned earlier and it ran into a debate

"There is also another dictum from Agastya Nadi. It is controversial but I have used it extensively and very successfully. It says unless there is a planet deb or retro, in the rashi chart or in the Nav, an exalted planet doesn't function as exalted and displays only ordinary strength. Best is to have the deb and retro in the rashi chart. If only in Nav - good things start happening only from mid - i,e, late 40s or early 50's.

I have seen many charts where there are 2-3 planets exalted but no planet deb or retro. Very ordinary life, comfortable but just that, nothing more."

[anuradha]

Vp singh suffered from kidney disease and bone marrow cancer all his life

Because of Sun- Saturn opposition at 6-12 axis . As a whole he reached to be the P.M. He was in the chief minister of U.P during Saturn-Jupiter.

Amitabh Bacchan has myasthenia gravis since 25 years.....still have nervous illnesses

Pl see his 8H and Sun . He was in Ketu -Jupiter from 25th October 2011 to 29th Sep 2012.

K N Rao never married or had children.

Venus- Moon in lagna is the reason
http://www.lightonvedicastrology.com/ph ... 56#p156756
You can see the result of Jupiter anter dasha in all the above cases.

[swamykool]

Mili,

There are two more pointers. Each and every planet gives mixed results, some good some bad. Sometimes more good than bad and vice versa. E.g. Mars or Sun exalted in the 10th H can take one to the height of career success, but will destroy married life.

Secondly, there are other 8 planets in the chart too. So to assume that only because Jupi is exalted there would be no trouble or disappointments in life is erroneous.

Also the lordship of Jupi needs to be checked. 6th or 8th L exalted will guarrantee a lot of trouble apart from gains.

And regarding the dictum, I use what I use, I don't need to convince anybody and am not interested in any debate.

SK

[howzat]

by swamykool » 18 Mar 2013 09:57
Hi violet twilight,
Actually what I have seen is that where a planet is from its MT house (any planet) does not matter at all. MT house matters only if the concerned planet is posited there.

There is also another theory, which I use extensively. That is a planet gives the results of its Nk Lord. So its very imp to to check the relationship of that planet with its Nk L and the condition and position of the Nk L. Same works with Rashi Ls but to a lesser extent.

For eg, take Jupi as exalted. Cancer has 3 Nks, Punarvasu (Jupi), Pushya (Shani) and Ashlesha (Mer). Exalted Jupi is most excellently posited in Punr, his own Nk.

In Pushya the natural relation with Shani is neutral (sama), so it becomes very imp to check the compound relation (panchadha maitri). If the compound relation is good, then its good to begin with.
In ashlesha Jupi is natural in a bad relation with Mer (mer hates Jupi), even the best panchadha maitri cannot rise better than neutral (sama), so its going to be troublesome. Also the last 3 degs of Ashlesha are Gandanta degs.

sir correctly you have told this matters. i am fully agree with you. why means i will give example.

i am not knowing much ah so i am giving googles and wiki link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Halen

Van Halen is an American hard rock band formed in Pasadena, California, in 1972. Its 1978 debut album, Van Halen—featuring guitarist Eddie Van Halen, vocalist David Lee Roth, drummer Alex Van Halen, and bassist Michael Anthony—is widely considered to be among the most "original" and "revolutionary" albums to "change rock and roll." According to the Recording Industry Association of America, Van Halen is the 19th best-selling band/artist in United States history, with sales of 56 million albums in the U.S. and 75 million albums worldwide. Van Halen is one of only five rock bands that have had two albums sell more than 10 million copies in the U.S. Additionally, Van Halen has had the most #1 hits in the history of Billboard's Mainstream Rock chart

you see one song. what he is playing guitar (3H - hands - finger dexterity)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj3ul98CnRg

data i am giving see - 26 Jan 1955 - 1:05 - Amsterdam - Tula lagna. Jupiter exalted in 10H but in own Nakshatra Punarvasu. best is what? he is loking at Guru dasha from 1973 - 1989. in that time within that time he is doing all karobhar and leaving. best music he is giving within that time only. millions of dollar money he is making.

[VioletTwilight]

Actually what I have seen is that where a planet is from its MT house (any planet) does not matter at all. MT house matters only if the concerned planet is posited there.

There is also another theory, which I use extensively. That is a planet gives the results of its Nk Lord. So its very imp to to check the relationship of that planet with its Nk L and the condition and position of the Nk L. Same works with Rashi Ls but to a lesser extent.

Dear SK,

I guess the point is how well the significations of Sagittarius/6th house are supported if Jupiter is exalted in lagna. This is stemming from dispositor theory and house lord being a good place from a given house to support its significations.

Perhaps, you mean that the relationship between a house and the position of its lord does not matter?

I agree that the strength the exaltation itself may vary based on Nakshatra and pada (influencing Navamsa house). A single exaltation planet (even in kendra) can't really give extra-ordinary results. But, I wonder how the benefics are behaving towards their own houses (assuming no other planet is posited there and modifying the results)?

Best regards,
Violet

[VioletTwilight]

Dear Mildredr, Anuradha,

Is there some way to concentrate examples with only on exalted Jupiter in lagna and see how their Jupiter MD and AD went as far as the 6th house/Sagittarius significations?

From general examples with Jupiter exaltation, many confounding factors interfere. Say,10th house Cancer will have Sagittarius as 3rd house. We have see how 3rd house significations suffered rather than the person's career. 3rd house significations may not always be public (small-group meeting, media, younger siblings). And, 3rd house isn't as big a dustana as 6th.

Similarly for exalted Jupiter in 12th, the significations that suffer should be in 5th house. Which ones will suffer and which one's won't? Is it because of 12th house placement of Jupiter or Jupiter being 8th from Sagittarius? Jupiter is also a karaka for 5th house leading to exalted karaka (not just house lord). So, it is another confounding factor IMHO.

If there is a similar to chart to VP. Singh and that person went through Jupiter MD and several ADs, it will clarify if VP. Singh's illness is due to 6th lord in lagna or not.

Best regards,
Violet

[milredr]

Mili,

There are two more pointers. Each and every planet gives mixed results, some good some bad. Sometimes more good than bad and vice versa. E.g. Mars or Sun exalted in the 10th H can take one to the height of career success, but will destroy married life.

Secondly, there are other 8 planets in the chart too. So to assume that only because Jupi is exalted there would be no trouble or disappointments in life is erroneous.

Also the lordship of Jupi needs to be checked. 6th or 8th L exalted will guarrantee a lot of trouble apart from gains.

And regarding the dictum, I use what I use, I don't need to convince anybody and am not interested in any debate.

SK

Coolant just to clarify, i am saying the same thing u r saying. Of course it depends on the lagna, lordship and the nakshatra jupiter is in as mentioned in my posts above. My only point was jupiter as a natural benefic can cause severe damage if it owns bad houses and the nakshatra its in. We cannot make a blanket statement that Jupiter as a natural benefic can cause no harm. That was the only point i was trying to make. Nd jupiter as an exalted lord of dushtana can cause huge damage too.

Way to go coolant. U shd use what u use and no explanations required what so ever

[VioletTwilight]

Exalted Jupiter in the 8th creates one of the worst yogas called "gohanta yoga" so it is supposed to be bad - affecting the health and making the native lose his character- that's what 8th house really means, it pushes the native to do something which against the nature of the ascendant.

Jupiter must either reside in a trine or a quadrant for Sagittarius ascendant otherwise it totally loses its significance.

For cancer ascendant, exalted Venus in the 9th gives positve results. If you look at bobby fischer's chart - he has cancer ascendant with exalted 4th and 5th lord and a strong d24 making him extremely intelligent with over 190 iq or maybe a little too intelligent for his own good.

Although this strictly isn't vedic astrology, my teacher has always said exalted planets, especially Jupiter causes more trouble than you can possibly imagine. This is because planets like Sun, Venus and Jupiter aren't really equipped to handle the first quarter of kaliyuga, its totally against their nature. You take a look at whats really going on - you see fake gurus, fake artists, fake rulers and even fake astrologers. The planets that were once famous for their extraordinary deeds are no longer effective in the present time. What you actually see is a very mild essence and cannot be attributed to their real qualities. So people may look successful or famous but its not because of Jupiter or Venus.

Dear elipsis,

Do you mean that benefics like Venus and Jupiter will not show their full potential in exalted in a chart? Or if they display full potential of their exaltation, it is detrimental to the individual due to the present kaliyuga conditions?

I mean, exalted Jupiter may not offer many rajayogas or fame or anything to the individual. It certainly does offer strong memory when posited in lagna. I will find it strange if exalted Jupiter in lagna gives an individual less than average memory strength even in kaliyuga. Will that memory work for good or bad for the individual is of course is the matter other things in chart and social conditions. (What good is a long memory of mostly bad events in life?).

On the opposite side of this effect-loss, will it mean that "gohanta yoga" will not be a big deal in current yuga? So, maleficence isn't so high any more if Jupiter is in 8th from Sagittarius?

Please elaborate.

Best regards,
Violet

[VioletTwilight]

Mili,

There are two more pointers. Each and every planet gives mixed results, some good some bad. Sometimes more good than bad and vice versa. E.g. Mars or Sun exalted in the 10th H can take one to the height of career success, but will destroy married life.

Secondly, there are other 8 planets in the chart too. So to assume that only because Jupi is exalted there would be no trouble or disappointments in life is erroneous.

Also the lordship of Jupi needs to be checked. 6th or 8th L exalted will guarrantee a lot of trouble apart from gains.

And regarding the dictum, I use what I use, I don't need to convince anybody and am not interested in any debate.

SK

Dear SK,

Sorry I missed to bolded part before. Would you elaborate the kind of "trouble" one should expect? Say, Jupiter exalted for Cancer lagna, and Venus exalted for Sagittarius or Pisces lagna?

Best regards,
Violet

[VioletTwilight]

Yup I share the same sentiments with regards to Jupiter. Haven't observed the others. It was astroboy who kept telling me this. Post that we have analysed several charts nd the conclusion has been the same. Jupiter has destroyed marriages career etc in its dasha. His famous line "so much for an exalted or natural benefic Jupiter". However it strictly depends on which house Jupiter owns. I have a chart for cancer asc. Jupiter exalted in the lagna, mars is mooltrikon nd running the mars dasa. This person has always invariably struggled to hold a job. He is just plain unlucky. Pl note jup owns 6th house of service. However an exalted jup has never made him struggle because he dint have a job. Either his parents took care of him or currently his wife. He is 46 years old, jobless stays in a beautiful villa nd the calmest sensible guy I have met.

He-he. That's no comfort for this exalted Jupiter in lagna + Mars in MT person who can't hold a steady job.